Help! New Lens Problems....

[Liz]

I ended up purchasing the new Tokina 11-16 instead of the 12-24. I took it to NYC today and there is obviously a problem - either with the lens, the camera, or me. When trying out the 12-24 under similar circumstances I never got results like this. Even trying out the 12-24 lens wide open on a sunny day, the results were over-exposed but nothing like this. I only had a short time today so I did most of my shots on "P" mode, AV - some on auto.

This first image will show you what the sky looked like and the 2nd isn't bad. The rest here are samples of what quite a few of the other shots look like. Is this flare? I was not facing the sun and in the shade most of the time. It wasn't that bright out.

I'd appreciate any input, advice, comments.



ISO 100 Aperture 8


ISO 100 Aperture 8


ISO 100 Aperture 5.6


ISO 100 Aperture 4

Crop - from shot taken the day I got the lens last week


Liz

[fx101]

That's no flare... I have a Sigma 15-30 that flares epicly but I can assure you that your lens is not flaring. Somehow your camera is overexposing violently. Look at this... is your lens clean? Are the contacts between your camera and the lens clean (the little electrical contacts)? Check your metering settings. If this is all ok send it back to tokina because something's wrong with the lens circuitry. I'm going to buy this lens soon so post back on how it goes!

[Liz]

That's no flare... I have a Sigma 15-30 that flares epicly but I can assure you that your lens is not flaring. Somehow your camera is overexposing violently. Look at this... is your lens clean? Are the contacts between your camera and the lens clean (the little electrical contacts)? Check your metering settings. If this is all ok send it back to tokina because something's wrong with the lens circuitry. I'm going to buy this lens soon so post back on how it goes!

I just got this lens last week, took it out for a little while for a few shots. I noticed the subject in most of the shots were pretty sharp with good color, but the backgrounds all looked overexposed. The tree in the post above was the worst example of those shots. I got 3 like that. None of the results were as good or sharp as the 12-24 I exchanged for the 11-16. Today many of my shots look like this.

The contacts are clean - all the other lenses work. I metered in the same way I usually do. I can return it to B&H as it's within the 14 days. But they're out of stock now.

Checking out the front under the glass, there is a tiny particle that shouldn't be there...maybe dust? But I strongly doubt that has anything to do with it.

Thanks for your input......I'll see what everyone else says.

Liz

[mjs1973]

Can you give us any info as far as exposure settings go Liz? I can't see any of the exif data in the images you posted.

This looks like they are just over exposed to me. The last shot looks like it was exposed properly for the tree, and the BG was brighter than the dynamic range of the sensor could handle, relative to the tree.

With a lot of bright sky in the frame, I would think that your meeter would be tricked into under exposing the FG more often than over exposing it.

[Liz]

Can you give us any info as far as exposure settings go Liz? I can't see any of the exif data in the images you posted.

This looks like they are just over exposed to me. The last shot looks like it was exposed properly for the tree, and the BG was brighter than the dynamic range of the sensor could handle, relative to the tree.

With a lot of bright sky in the frame, I would think that your meeter would be tricked into under exposing the FG more often than over exposing it.

I went back and added the aperture and ISO to the above images. Maybe over-exposing was the problem as I used "P" mode most of the time, a few on auto just to see what the lens could do as I only had a short time to try it out so didn't fool with the settings. The building (worst pic) the aperture was 4.0 so maybe that was the problem there. However, I have to say here that I've done P mode and Auto before when I don't have a lot of time to try a lens out the first time and I never got any kind of results like this.

I appreciate your comments. Unfortunately it's going to rain for the next couple of days so I'll have to wait to try other settings....

Liz

[Dylan8i]

yep looks like classic over exposure to me. what exposure mode was your camera in ( center, spot, etc)

that would make the biggest difference.

[Liz]

yep looks like classic over exposure to me. what exposure mode was your camera in ( center, spot, etc)

that would make the biggest difference.

Evaluative (XTi)

[mjs1973]

IThe building (worst pic) the aperture was 4.0 so maybe that was the problem there.

What was your shutter speed on this image? Using the unscientific "Sunny 16" rule, you should have had a shutter speed somewhere in the 1/1600 - 1/2000 of a second range. I'm assuming it was a pretty bright/sunny day out.

Based on the Sunny 16 rule, on a sunny day, you should be able to use an aperture combo of f/16, and 1/ISO. Since f/4 is four stops faster than f/16, you would need to increase your shutter speed by 4 stops. Depending on how your camera is set up, that would be some where in the 1/1600 or 1/2000 second range. If you start at f/16 and 1/125 of a second, and open up to f/4, you will have to increase your shutter speed to 1/2000 of a second to maintain the proper exposure. Of course this is assuming that f/16 @ 1/125 was correct to start with. Check your shutter speed and if it is considerably longer than 1/1600-1/2000.

Also, since you are shutting in Program mode, do you have any exposure compensation dialed in?

One other thing that I thought of. Set your aperture, and press the DOF preview button to see if the lens is actually stopping down. The aperture stopped working on one of my lenses last summer. No matter what I set the aperture to on the camera, the lens just wouldn't close down when I took the photo. So basically the lens was stuck wide open, even though the aperture set on the camera body said otherwise. It through the meeter off because the meeter was making it's reading based on the aperture I had set on the camera body. Since the lens was not stopping down, I was getting over exposed images. It took me a while to figure it out, but eventually I did, and had to send the lens in for repair.

[Liz]

Mike,

Thanks for taking the time to help me out here. I only have a few minutes at the moment (got to work sometime), so I will check more of the settings later. However, as far as the ones I posted, they were shot in "P" mode or auto.

I do have a quick question now. Checking more of the shots last night, I did discover something that I'm wondering about. First let me just say that I always check out a new lens as soon as I have a few minutes. I just put the camera in "P" mode or auto just to see what it can do initially to be sure it's working until I get more time to play with the settings. My XTi is pretty good at choosing settings on P & auto so I can at least see how sharp the lens is and determine if there are any obvious problems until I have more time to play with the settings. Then I do the aperture priority and try different settings. Yesterday the apertures were all around f/4 to f/8 and the shutter speeds 1/125 - 1/500.

Then I went back and checked the first shots of the Tokina 12-14 done on a sunny day like yesterday - all shot in P or auto. The results were nothing like these, actually they were really good. The settings the camera chose were right on with apertures around f/11 - f/13 with much faster shutter speeds as they should be (forgot the exact speeds). I was amazed at the differences in these settings between the two lenses.

Would this be a camera or lens problem?

Liz

What was your shutter speed on this image? Using the unscientific "Sunny 16" rule, you should have had a shutter speed somewhere in the 1/1600 - 1/2000 of a second range. I'm assuming it was a pretty bright/sunny day out.

Based on the Sunny 16 rule, on a sunny day, you should be able to use an aperture combo of f/16, and 1/ISO. Since f/4 is four stops faster than f/16, you would need to increase your shutter speed by 4 stops. Depending on how your camera is set up, that would be some where in the 1/1600 or 1/2000 second range. If you start at f/16 and 1/125 of a second, and open up to f/4, you will have to increase your shutter speed to 1/2000 of a second to maintain the proper exposure. Of course this is assuming that f/16 @ 1/125 was correct to start with. Check your shutter speed and if it is considerably longer than 1/1600-1/2000.

Also, since you are shutting in Program mode, do you have any exposure compensation dialed in?

One other thing that I thought of. Set your aperture, and press the DOF preview button to see if the lens is actually stopping down. The aperture stopped working on one of my lenses last summer. No matter what I set the aperture to on the camera, the lens just wouldn't close down when I took the photo. So basically the lens was stuck wide open, even though the aperture set on the camera body said otherwise. It through the meeter off because the meeter was making it's reading based on the aperture I had set on the camera body. Since the lens was not stopping down, I was getting over exposed images. It took me a while to figure it out, but eventually I did, and had to send the lens in for repair.

[mjs1973]

If over exposure is the problem, it could be either. When I had my problem with my lens aperture not working, my over exposure was cause by the lens. If for some reason, the meeter in your camera isn't working properly, or the camera isn't talking to the lens properly, then you could end up with over exposed images as a result of the camera. With the info we have here, there is really no way to know for sure what the problem is, or if there really is a problem. It could be something as simple as exposure compensation dialed into the Program exposure mode.

Something to keep in mind when shutting in Auto or Program mode is that the camera assumes you are hand holding to take your photos. Depending on the light, it's going to set the aperture, shutter speed, and possibly the ISO to determine a hand-holdable exposure. On a bright day, the camera may stop the lens down quite a bit. In darker conditions, it may open up quite a bit. That could account for the differences in the settings. It's been a while since I used Auto or P modes, but the point I'm trying to make is that the camera almost always kept the shutter speed at a typical hand holdable setting. Usually in the 1/60 or a stop or two faster. So the aperture would very quite a bit, depending on the lighting conditions.

Either way, I wouldn't wait for a nice day outside to go test it again. I would be setting something up inside and testing it to see what's going.

[freygr]

I had a problem with my camera it just said lens error. But if you could go and try a another lens and see if the problem is with that lens or if you have a another camera body that you can try that lens on, and see how the problem moves.

[Liz]

I had a problem with my camera it just said lens error. But if you could go and try a another lens and see if the problem is with that lens or if you have a another camera body that you can try that lens on, and see how the problem moves.

Thanks! Yes, I did put my 28mm/f1.8 lens on the camera and tried it out - all the shots were fine. No exposure problems. I even focused some of the shots toward a bright sky, and on darker areas around the sky. No problems at all. Although the time and subjects were different, I tried my best to get a bad exposure as the sky was still bright. They all came out exposed quite well.

Liz

[another view]

Superwide zooms can flare a lot easier than other lenses, but most do a really good job of controlling it. My Sigma 10-20 is just amazingly good for a $500 10-20mm lens. Perfect? No, but I have shot into the sun with it - almost as good as back in my 20mm prime lens + Provia slide film days.

Since you tried the lens using a shooting method other than how you normally work, experiment with it a bit more. If it was flare that bad you would have seen it in the viewfinder. It's easy enough to bump the metering mode (or forget to change it, trust me) from spot metering back to a "normal" mode. Are you sure this wasn't the problem?

[Liz]

Superwide zooms can flare a lot easier than other lenses, but most do a really good job of controlling it. My Sigma 10-20 is just amazingly good for a $500 10-20mm lens. Perfect? No, but I have shot into the sun with it - almost as good as back in my 20mm prime lens + Provia slide film days.

Since you tried the lens using a shooting method other than how you normally work, experiment with it a bit more. If it was flare that bad you would have seen it in the viewfinder. It's easy enough to bump the metering mode (or forget to change it, trust me) from spot metering back to a "normal" mode. Are you sure this wasn't the problem?

Thanks Steve....

Regarding the shooting method (auto & P mode) I have used it often when I first get a new lens just to try it out - and I use it if I'm in a hurry at other times. I've gotten some not-so-great images when I do that, but there are always some good ones. My concern is that of more than 50 shots, none of them are really good.

I guess it's possible the metering mode was accidently changed (anything is possible); however, when I checked it after I got home, it was on evaluative. I don't have spot metering on the XTi - but "partial metering" is almost as "good" (this is always a debate). Evaluative (obviously) is supposed to "evaluate" the whole frame.

Should I have used partial?

What is "normal" since I have 3 modes and none are "normal?"

I put the 28mm/f1.8 on the XTi when I got home and tried to get the same effect, but couldn't. Of course the sky wasn't quite as bright. I am wondering if it's because it's an UWA lens and I just don't know how to use it yet. At any rate, I'll try it out again tomorrow.

I may be overly concerned about this specific copy - and over-reacting a bit. To be honest, when it arrived the front cap was off and it must have been knocking against the sides because there were a few marks on the plastic by the glass (not on the glass). It also has a very small particle under the glass on the front. Also, there were 2 holes in the plastic wrapping around the lens where someone had taped it - and removed the tape. Tokina lenses don't come with tape on the plastic, so it had been opened for some reason. I called B&H as soon as I opened the box to let them know what it looked like in case there was a problem with the lens so they wouldn't think I had put the marks on it and taped the wrapping. This isn't really a problem, but it makes me wonder if someone else returned it before I got it. My first Tokina also came with the cap off, however. :-)

Liz

[fx101]

Thanks Steve....

Regarding the shooting method (auto & P mode) I have used it often when I first get a new lens just to try it out - and I use it if I'm in a hurry at other times. I've gotten some not-so-great images when I do that, but there are always some good ones. My concern is that of more than 50 shots, none of them are really good.

I guess it's possible the metering mode was accidently changed (anything is possible); however, when I checked it after I got home, it was on evaluative. I don't have spot metering on the XTi - but "partial metering" is almost as "good" (this is always a debate). Evaluative (obviously) is supposed to "evaluate" the whole frame.

Should I have used partial?

What is "normal" since I have 3 modes and none are "normal?"

I put the 28mm/f1.8 on the XTi when I got home and tried to get the same effect, but couldn't. Of course the sky wasn't quite as bright. I am wondering if it's because it's an UWA lens and I just don't know how to use it yet. At any rate, I'll try it out again tomorrow.

I may be overly concerned about this specific copy - and over-reacting a bit. To be honest, when it arrived the front cap was off and it must have been knocking against the sides because there were a few marks on the plastic by the glass (not on the glass). It also has a very small particle under the glass on the front. Also, there were 2 holes in the plastic wrapping around the lens where someone had taped it - and removed the tape. Tokina lenses don't come with tape on the plastic, so it had been opened for some reason. I called B&H as soon as I opened the box to let them know what it looked like in case there was a problem with the lens so they wouldn't think I had put the marks on it and taped the wrapping. This isn't really a problem, but it makes me wonder if someone else returned it before I got it. My first Tokina also came with the cap off, however. :-)

Liz

Shoot in manual (I'm not familiar with Canons except the 1D MKIII but I'm positive it has a manual mode of some sort) and set your apperture to f/8. Fire off a shot and look at the exif on your camera or your computer. On a sunny day it should be 1/500 at the lower end or 1/2000 if it's insanely bright. If you're shooting at 1/250 and the image is overexposed then there's either something wrong with your camera meter (which is doubtful considering your other lenses work fine) or the lens/camera communication is defective (on the lens end). In this case either return it for a new one or let Tokina take care of it. As for the particle... unless you're shooting at f/22 in bright light at short shutter speeds that little particle IS NOT going to show up... and if it does it'll be so tiny that you can clone it out with a size 1 brush.

[mjs1973]

Hey Liz,

I went to your Smugmug page and checked out the exif data on the shot of the building. The shutter speed was 1/80 of a second and there was no exposure compensation set. Did you by any chance lock the exposure on something, then recompose the photo?

This photo was also taken at ISO 100 and f/4, but the shutter speed was at 1/1000 sec.

http://mariaimage.smugmug.com/galler...92014687_hutAz

My guess is that something must have tricked your meter, but it's hard telling what it could have been...

[Frog]

It just should not have overexposed like that in P mode and since the other lenses are working fine, I'd take it back, if you bought it locally, and have it checked out.

[Liz]

Hey Liz,

I went to your Smugmug page and checked out the exif data on the shot of the building. The shutter speed was 1/80 of a second and there was no exposure compensation set. Did you by any chance lock the exposure on something, then recompose the photo?

This photo was also taken at ISO 100 and f/4, but the shutter speed was at 1/1000 sec.

http://mariaimage.smugmug.com/galler...92014687_hutAz

My guess is that something must have tricked your meter, but it's hard telling what it could have been...

The first one you mentioned (building) I was having a difficult time getting the right exposure. I remember focusing on different parts of the building to get away from the glare, but I'm not sure if I locked the shutter and recomposed. I seldom do this, but it's possible.

The 2nd one I know I didn't recompose. I shot quite a few of this building, some of the shots I tried different settings, but I didn't lock the exposure in any of them.

Thanks again for helping out.

Liz

[Liz]

Shoot in manual (I'm not familiar with Canons except the 1D MKIII but I'm positive it has a manual mode of some sort) and set your apperture to f/8. Fire off a shot and look at the exif on your camera or your computer. On a sunny day it should be 1/500 at the lower end or 1/2000 if it's insanely bright. If you're shooting at 1/250 and the image is overexposed then there's either something wrong with your camera meter (which is doubtful considering your other lenses work fine) or the lens/camera communication is defective (on the lens end). In this case either return it for a new one or let Tokina take care of it. As for the particle... unless you're shooting at f/22 in bright light at short shutter speeds that little particle IS NOT going to show up... and if it does it'll be so tiny that you can clone it out with a size 1 brush.

Thanks for the advice and your comments. I'll try it out again tomorrow and see what happens. I'll try your suggestion too. Tomorrow depending on the results, I'll decide if I'm going to return the lens or not.

I'm not concerned about the particle - just mentioned how the lens arrived. I was a bit annoyed discovering the lens had been re-wrapped and the lens cap was bobbing around the glass.

Liz

[Liz]

It just should not have overexposed like that in P mode and since the other lenses are working fine, I'd take it back, if you bought it locally, and have it checked out.

I tend to agree about P mode since I've used it many times before. However, I'll try it out again tomorrow and see what happens. I got very good results in P mode with the 12-24 lens.

Thanks Frog.

Liz

[Liz]

What a difference a Day Makes......most of the results were decent.

I took this lens out again today, but not to NY. It was sunny and bright. I shot mostly aperture priority with a few shutter priority. I was very short of time so didn't do manual. I also shot some in "P" mode (same as Sunday) to see if I would get the same results. The next to last shot was in P mode. I'm amazed at how much better these images are compared to Sunday.

Yesterday I was almost ready to return the lens, but I'm encouraged today. Please tell me your honest opinion. I didn't do anything different than Sunday, except I shot more in P mode.

If you would like any more info or wish to see the original, here is the link.

http://mariaimage.smugmug.com/galler...40_ZDZ36#P-4-6

Straight out of camera........no post processing.

Thanks for your input.

11mm f/8 Tv 1/250 ISO 100


11mm f/13 Tv 1/100 ISO 100


16mm f/13 Tv 1/100 ISO 100


This was shot in "P" mode 11mm f/8 1/250 ISO 100


The shots from this angle were soft for some reason??

[fx101]

Maybe yesterday you accidentally dialed in exposure compensation. These are right on the mark. The last one is a bit underexposed actually. Can you post an example of a crop of the soft overexposed picture you are referring to?

[Liz]

Maybe yesterday you accidentally dialed in exposure compensation. These are right on the mark. The last one is a bit underexposed actually. Can you post an example of a crop of the soft overexposed picture you are referring to?

I had posted the link to Smugmug before you posted if you want to see originals or more info.

http://mariaimage.smugmug.com/galler...40_ZDZ36#P-4-6

Sorry I posted the wrong image....here is a crop of the overexposed shot. The one I posted is soft, but not over-exposed. I got about 5 or 6 that were what I consider soft. On the other hand, it was getting late & I was rushing. It might have just been camera shake in my hurry.

Liz

[freygr]

Maybe the there was some protective coating or junk on the contacts in the lens.

[fx101]

Hmm... the soft ones seem a bit out of focus and the overexposed ones are close enough that I don't think it's lens communication. The only solution I can think of is to try and get another copy of the lens to see if it does the same thing.