A Tripod Question

[Loupey]

Ever since slayer7124 posed the question a few weeks ago about using tripods for macro work, I've reactivated mine into service to use with my 180mm macro lens. My main bread-and-butter tripod that I have been using for over 20 years is a Benbo. I just recently mounted a Manfrotto 322RC2 Heavy Duty Grip Ball Head onto it.

I love this combo because everything about it is easy and quick: quick setup, quick release, quick composition, and light enough to trek for even long distances. However, here is my problems:

1) The Manfrotto head is not as heavy duty as it is claimed. Especially in cold early mornings. Just the weight of the 30D with the 180mm macro is enough to cause drift if the unit is angled down (which is to say, nearly all the time).

2) The poor old Benbo (being light and easily transportable) is too light I'm afraid for this new gear. It was fine with my Canon A-1 film SLR with the 200mm f/4 macro of that era. It was even sturdy enough for my medium format gear. But this new stuff is just too heavy and all my tricks don't always work.

So the question is, what can you recommend (tripod and head) based on my shooting style? I need a new one but I think I'll break it out into two different systems: one for limber macro work and one for stout super telephoto work for when I get the 500mm f/4L.

Under some conditions, I find that I can get almost the same quality resolution handholding my 300mm IS lens with tubes than I can get with the 180mm macro on my current tripod. I can usually find a way around it with one trick or another but when the wind is blowing, the tricks aren't always feasible.


Thanks in advance.

Anyway, here are some shots from this weekend using the Benbo/Bogen 322RC2 combo. Granted these are shot in a slight breeze so that had more of an effect than the mount itself.

[Knight]

What kind of weight are you talking about when you say your Bembo is nice and lightweight Loupey ? If i had the bucks at this time i would be looking at a Gitzo G1325 ( carbon fiber about 6 pounds ) and maybe a Gitzo g1376 ball head ( rated 6kg ) or the 1575 (rated 10 kg) . At present time i have a manfrotto 190 and a junior ma...to head that is a pain to use.

[Canon_Bob]

As Knight said, Gitzo. Period. Anything else is a distant second. If you're eventually going to get the 500 f/4L, then I'd probably consider a 4 section 3 series 6x (carbon fiber, and strong as heck, but very light weight and compact for your nomadic shooting style). For the head, I'd consider an Arca-Swiss Z1 SP. Works outstanding for macro, is small, light weight, and rated at 150lbs!! I have one and love it. Once you get the 500, then get a Wimberley Sidekick to mount atop the Z1, and you're good to go. A rapidly adaptable, light weight, compact setup that can be used for both Macro and super-tele work up to the 500L f/4.

[Dylan8i]

is that some winged burning bush i see? (pic 2)

[Loupey]

Thanks for weighing in, Knight and Canon_Bob. Wow Gitzo has a lot of different models!

The 6x carbon fiber units definitely seem like a worthy consideration. There is one store in my downtown who I know carries several Gitzo models. I will make a point to visit them in a few days to handle the different series and see how they are constructed. Seems exceptionally light - my current tripod/head combo weights just under 7 lbs - and so I'm excited to see how these higher capacity legs feel.

Ironic that with my 300mm (with tubes or 2x TC) I have yet to shoot anything, except a few test shots, on a tripod because of that fantastic IS. A new model 180mm macro with IS, if Canon ever made one, would make a lot of this research/money spent on a tripod almost irrevelant

And Dylan - I have no idea what it is.

[Canon_Bob]

No problem Loupey. Just a couple more points I'll add to tripod use/choice:

1. Image stabilization (IS) is the coolest thing since sliced bread, but is NOT the replacement for a good stable shooting platform. I can beat a handheld IS image ANY DAY by using a tripod without IS. In fact, if you read your lens manual, they normally say to turn off IS while on the tripod under many shooting circumstances. IS can actually work against you in some cases. Gotta learn when to flip the switch off.

2. When buying a tripod, try to find one that will extend high enough WITHOUT a center post so that you can comfortably stand straight up and shoot with the camera mounted on the legs only. this is by far the strongest tripod system. Center posts (while convenient) add instability and weight to the tripod. I rarely use them. Try to use the legs only if possible. It also gives you a platform that will drop down low very quickly (if the center post isn't in the way).

3. Get a tripod that has a weight rating MUCH higher than your intended use. Hanging a long lens off a camera creates an extreme amount of leverage and torque. The actual pressure being exerted is far greater than the actual weight of the camera and lens alone. Double it at a minimum.

4. Dampen your tripod against vibration. Those carrying pad kits from places like LensCoat or Opti-Tech work great. You can also save a bit of money by going to your local Home Depot or Lowes and get some neoprene pipe insulation and some Gaffer tape.

[Loupey]

Good points, Canon_Bob and I agree with all your points (except I still think I can hand-hold my 300mm with the best of the mounted ones )

A few more points for others out there to consider when using tripods:

5) Always use a remote cable release. If you don't have one, you can use the cameras self-timer.

6) Use mirror-lockup if your camera has this feature

7) Find the natural frequency of your combined rig. With my previous film cameras, I knew that shutter speeds from about 1/4s to about 1/60s were the worst possible speeds. The vibrations couldn't be dampened out effectively within these shutter speeds. By using much slower speeds (say like 2 seconds), the vibrations will dampen out and a much sharper image will result. I used to carry neutral density filters solely for the purpose of getting the shutter speeds down into the "seconds" range. Naturally this trick doesn't work if the wind is blowing or if the bug is moving

[Canon_Bob]

Hey, this is starting to look like a "Tripod Tips and Tricks" thread :-)

One caution to add to Loupe's points above:

If using Mirror Lockup (MLU), avoid pointing the camera into the sunlight for more than a brief moment. You can definitely damage the camera.

[slayer7124]

what vibrations would you guys happen to be talking about?

[Canon_Bob]

what vibrations would you guys happen to be talking about?

Any one of a number of things cause tripod vibration. Some examples:

Camera operation (every time to take a shot, the camera vibrates).

Wind.

If you're shooting from a boardwalk, people walking on it cause vibrations,

Loud noises near the camera (airshows, etc.)


On shorter lenses, this isn't such a big deal. However, when you move into the big glass (typically 400mm or more), it's a HUGE deal. Longer focal lengths amplify vibrations, and result in softer images.

[Sushigaijin]

the only tripod tip I know, since I very rarely use one:

Hang something heavy from where the center post is, or would be. The extra weight will help keep wind and vibration down.

[Canon_Bob]

the only tripod tip I know, since I very rarely use one:

Hang something heavy from where the center post is, or would be. The extra weight will help keep wind and vibration down.

Yup. that works best in wind. Another good trick is to lay a beanbag over the top of the camera/lens. If the lens is big enough, I'll sometimes take my loaded vest off and lay it over the top.

Also, avoid pressing your face up against the camera when looking through the viewfinder. Leave a little gap.

[mjs1973]

One other thing that nobody has mentioned yet is to keep the tripod as low as you can. The shorter your tripod, the more stable. Having your camera at eye level when standing is nice and many times necessary, but keeping the legs shorter will increase stability. It's not always an option, but one I try to take advantage of whenever I can.

Most of the time when I'm waiting for wildlife, I sit on the ground, and spread the tripod legs around me, making sure they are not touching me.

[Sushigaijin]

Yup. that works best in wind. Another good trick is to lay a beanbag over the top of the camera/lens. If the lens is big enough, I'll sometimes take my loaded vest off and lay it over the top.

Also, avoid pressing your face up against the camera when looking through the viewfinder. Leave a little gap.

The beanbag trick is a good one. I keep two bags of rice in the car for just such an occasion - one can go underneath the camera, one on top.

[SmartWombat]

If you're collapsing the tripod legs, then use the thickest leg sections, and slide the thinnest portions up inside.
Every little helps, and this makes the legs stiffer by a small amount.

[mjs1973]

The beanbag trick is a good one. I keep two bags of rice in the car for just such an occasion - one can go underneath the camera, one on top.

I do the same thing. I have a 5 pound bag, and a 2 pound bag. They come in very handy when shooting out the window. I set the small bag on the window, lens on the bag, larger bag on top of the lens.

[Loupey]

Thanks for all the replies, guys! A great review for everyone.

Bags of rice? Rounds useful and delicious at the same time. Oh, wait, do you mean uncooked rice I'm Asian like that

[mjs1973]

Bags of rice? Rounds useful and delicious at the same time. Oh, wait, do you mean uncooked rice I'm Asian like that

Not only uncooked, but moldy too! My truck has a slight leak (but only when it rains), and it was dripping on my rice bags. I had to throw them out and replace them.

If you make your own, put a loop or something on them. I had button holes, like the hole for the buttons on a pair of jeans, in mine. Then I clipped a carabiner in it, so if I wanted to hang it from my tripod, it was real easy to do so.

It seems your thread has been highjacked Loupey. I say go with a good carbon fiber pod.

[Loupey]

My local camera store held a Vendors Sale this past weekend. I snuck out in the midst of preparing for my daughter birthday slumber party (which, btw, was the extent of my "wildlife" photography this weekend) to speak to the reps of Gitzo and Canon in particular.

I was prepared to spend $1k on the Gitzo Explorer 6x carbon fiber tripod, off-center head, and 6x monopod. Man are they light! But after handling them how I would handle them in the field, I thought they were too light. Not in terms of capacity, but mass. Sure the carbon fiber material allows for much lighter construction while maintaining rigidity. But the tripod was so light (even the 3000-series Mountaineer), that my rig would make the combo severely top-heavy which is never a good thing - especially since I need my column cantilevered to get low enough to the ground sometimes. I figured that if I used the 6x Gitzo, I would need even more weight wrapped around the tripod to weight it down and that seemed counter-productive to me.

But all is not lost! I am now convinced that the Canon 40D will help improve my macro work more so than a newer tripod. The Live View seems more powerful than I expected and the better noise handling should allow at least an increase of one stop of ISO/shutter speed to what I normally use. We'll see. As for the monopod, a plain black heavy one is OK.

Thanks for the tips everyone. It was an eye opening experience really studying the new technology out there for tripods.

[Canon_Bob]

My local camera store held a Vendors Sale this past weekend. I snuck out in the midst of preparing for my daughter birthday slumber party (which, btw, was the extent of my "wildlife" photography this weekend) to speak to the reps of Gitzo and Canon in particular.

I was prepared to spend $1k on the Gitzo Explorer 6x carbon fiber tripod, off-center head, and 6x monopod. Man are they light! But after handling them how I would handle them in the field, I thought they were too light. Not in terms of capacity, but mass. Sure the carbon fiber material allows for much lighter construction while maintaining rigidity. But the tripod was so light (even the 3000-series Mountaineer), that my rig would make the combo severely top-heavy which is never a good thing - especially since I need my column cantilevered to get low enough to the ground sometimes. I figured that if I used the 6x Gitzo, I would need even more weight wrapped around the tripod to weight it down and that seemed counter-productive to me.

But all is not lost! I am now convinced that the Canon 40D will help improve my macro work more so than a newer tripod. The Live View seems more powerful than I expected and the better noise handling should allow at least an increase of one stop of ISO/shutter speed to what I normally use. We'll see. As for the monopod, a plain black heavy one is OK.

Thanks for the tips everyone. It was an eye opening experience really studying the new technology out there for tripods.

I don't use a center post. No need to, the legs open to 3 different settings.....the widest of which allows the tripod to open to ground level. I use the Series 5 (6x carbon). Phenomenal tripod.