New to Digital, Decision: D80 or 30D?

[Dave R]

I'm new to the idea of Digital Photography and am having the toughest time deciding on a camera. I've been shooting with a Canon Elan for 14 years and have decided to make the switch. I own a few Canon lenses, but don't want that to influence my decision. I've got it narrowed down to the Nikon D80 and the Canon 30D.

My background and style: I'm at an intermediate level, having been the photographer at several weddings for family and friends, and twice professionally. I've also recently submitted to the AZ State fair, with all 4 of my entries being accepted, and one taking a 2nd place plaque. These were outdoor nature shots and wildlife.

Almost all of my photography is either family events or nature photography; however I enjoy photographing vintage sports car races and family sporting events. My family takes part in triathlons and Iron Man events and I want to capture the action as it approaches me.

I've tried the D80 and the 30D in stores only and love both. But - I've read a lot of negatives about the 30D. What I love about it is the 5FPS, 1/8000th sec, and the lightning fast focus. Other than that I'm sold on the D80 but don't know if it can focus fast enough for the sports. I'm also concerned with the "soft" look of the pictures, I've read about. I'm interested in putting this camera together with the 18-200mm VR lens (if I can find one) or maybe the kit 18-135mm lens. If I get the Canon I'll match it up with a 17-85mm IS lens.

I realize I'm posting to a Nikon site, but would appreciate any advice on either camera. I've read too many forums where people say to just flip a coin.

Thanks!

[Photo-John]

I've read too many forums where people say to just flip a coin.

That's funny. Because in this case, it's good advice

But I can humor you. I'm curious about the negative things you've heard about the EOS 30D - mostly because I can't think of anything major. The one thing that I think is a big deal, and you've dismissed, is the equipment you already own. Familiarity with a system and a previous lens investment are a damn good reason to stick with a manufacturer. However, if you've always had a hankering for a Nikon, that's a legitimate issue, too. Just don't have any illusions. You know, the grass is always greener.

[Dave R]

Thanks for the advice. I'll start with the equipment I own. Lenses: 50mm 1:1.8, 28-80mm, 35-105mm, and 100-300mm (which would give me one heck of a zoom at x1.6). All zoom lenses are ultrasonic. If I were to buy the Nikon lens that I mentioned it would cover most of the range of what I have. By the way - I've loved my Canon - I'm just looking and maybe trying to justify the change.

As far as the 30D, I've read that the white balance is buried deep inside menus and that this is critical to set for each picture (remember, I'm new to this and only know what I've read, so is it really critical?). I've also read negative comments about the flash options buried in menus, and the AF assist using anoying bursts of the light. Maybe I'm being too picky, but I'm only going to buy once and need to be sure I get the one that best fits my needs. I'll say I love the 30D, but would have these things on my mind, especially the white balance.

I'm a bit concered about the D80 niose at higher ISO's. Is this a real problem? And again, one of my concerns is that I do occasionally go to sporting events and am concerned about the speed that the D80 focuses (or tracks moving objects). I could go with either camera.

The Canon is supposed to come with great software, but I've not heard that about Nikon (true?). This is also a factor.

This is a tough choice! :mad2: I think once the above questions are answered, I'll be able to make my choice. Thanks again for your advice.

[Photo-John]

Tony-
Thanks for the post. But we've got user reviews for both cameras, right here on PhotographyREVIEW.com:

Nikon D80 Digital DSLR Camera Reviews >>
Canon EOS 30D DSLR Camera Reviews >>

[Franglais]

Thanks for the advice. I'll start with the equipment I own. Lenses: 50mm 1:1.8, 28-80mm, 35-105mm, and 100-300mm (which would give me one heck of a zoom at x1.6). All zoom lenses are ultrasonic. If I were to buy the Nikon lens that I mentioned it would cover most of the range of what I have. By the way - I've loved my Canon - I'm just looking and maybe trying to justify the change.

As far as the 30D, I've read that the white balance is buried deep inside menus and that this is critical to set for each picture (remember, I'm new to this and only know what I've read, so is it really critical?). I've also read negative comments about the flash options buried in menus, and the AF assist using anoying bursts of the light. Maybe I'm being too picky, but I'm only going to buy once and need to be sure I get the one that best fits my needs. I'll say I love the 30D, but would have these things on my mind, especially the white balance.

I'm a bit concered about the D80 niose at higher ISO's. Is this a real problem? And again, one of my concerns is that I do occasionally go to sporting events and am concerned about the speed that the D80 focuses (or tracks moving objects). I could go with either camera.

The Canon is supposed to come with great software, but I've not heard that about Nikon (true?). This is also a factor.

This is a tough choice! :mad2: I think once the above questions are answered, I'll be able to make my choice. Thanks again for your advice.

Thinking about Canon's recent announcements I would say - choose Nikon. I suspect that "semi-pro APS-C" cameras from Canon like the 30D may soon be a thing of the past as they shift over to full-frame and just leave the Digital Rebel in the APS-C market. Canon just don't seem to be making an effort:

- the 30D could have been much better if they'd used the viewfinder and focussing system from the 5D
- Canon still has a mediocre range of lenses for APS-C (read the reviews of the 17-85)
- Canon still has no 18-200. Instead of which they just released a 85mm f1.2, which shows you where their priorities are.

I don't have a D80 but I have a D200 which has almost the same sensor. I have no problem with noise at high ISO BUT I always shoot RAW and use Nikon Capture to convert to JPG. I recently bought Paint Shop Pro so I tried out the PSP RAW converter. The results were comical - lots of noise and the colour was off too.

Charles

[Photo-John]

- the 30D could have been much better if they'd used the viewfinder and focussing system from the 5D
- Canon still has a mediocre range of lenses for APS-C (read the reviews of the 17-85)
- Canon still has no 18-200. Instead of which they just released a 85mm f1.2, which shows you where their priorities are.

I hadn't thought about Canon not addressing the APS-C sensor market. I don't know what to think of that statement. If I remember correctly, the EOS 30D has a better AF system than the 5D. And I don't think it would be posssible to use the 5D viewfinder on the 30D since it would be too big. It's just not compatible. Brighter would be nice. But that's different than using the same viewfinder that the 5D uses. As for the lenses, I'm not so sure thar really matters, since the Canon lens range is so large and 35mm lenses work wonderfully with the APS-C sensor cameras. If you need wider, the EF-S 10-22mm lens is awesome.

I do wish Canon had an 18-200 IS lens. I was hoping they'd introduce one at PMA. And I do think the 18-200mm VR lens is a compelling reason to buy Nikon, if you aren't already invested in Canon. But for Dave to toss his whole system doesn't seem wise to me. His lenses will all work fine on a 30D. To replace what he has with Nikon gear will cost him a couple of thousand dollars, whereas he could just buy a Canon body for $1300 (or whatever they're going for) and use the glass he already has.

[Frog]

I'm not a sports photographer but my d80 focuses fast with an 18-135 on it.
It seems fast to me, anyway.

[Photo-John]

I'm not a sports photographer but my d80 focuses fast with an 18-135 on it.
It seems fast to me, anyway.

As long as you're using the AF-S Nikkors, I don't think there's a huge difference between Nikon and Canon anymore. There was a time when there was. But that was about 10 years ago. It's possible that Canon is still better for the most critical sports photography. But it's not going to matter for most people. Good photography technique matters more than the camera's AF system.

[MJS]

I'm surprised deckcadet hasn't jumped on this one yet. Just be prepared for a near religious experience if he does.

[Photo-John]

I'm surprised deckcadet hasn't jumped on this one yet. Just be prepared for a near religious experience if he does.

I'm waiting to read some really compelling reasons for a switch. So far, I haven't seen any. I don't intend to infer that the D80 isn't as good as the 30D. But tossing all the glass you've already invested in is a major decision - especially when you're talking Nikon vs. Canon. It's a toss-up. So go with what you own - unless money isn't an issue. There's also the learning curve of a new system.

[deckcadet]

I'm playing nice tonight

I'll always say 'buy the nikon,' but don't dismiss your existing gear immediately.

The D80 isn't the camera totally aimed at the 30D. the 30D is sort of in a middle ground between the D80 and D200. The D200 can be had now for $1339 (at B&H) or slightly less, and will equal or surpass the speed and capabilities of the 30D at just about everything

Your current lenses aren't exactly a massive investment, nor are most of them considered to be entirely top notch lenses (the 50/1.8 is great regardless), so while I would think twice about dumping them outright, it isn't going to be too terrible.

The D80 will do great for sports focuswise- it really depends more on your lens than the camera in this case. The D80 has the 11 point AF system inherited from the D200, though with different algorithms. Provided you have a good lens, it will do fine. Nikons do a good job with screwdriver AF even if you have a lens with moderately fast gearing. AF-S lenses will scream on the D80 regardless.

I've never heard of any complaints about the D80 being 'soft' without there being a misalignment in the lens, body, or photographer ;)
There's nothing kicking up the in-camera sharpening a tiny bit won't fix, anyways. The D200 doesn't apply as much sharpening as the D80 by default.

Either way, you have a win-win situation. My suggestion? you've tried them both a bit in the store- try going a bit deeper. Use each for a while. Try messing with settings for >10 minutes on each. See which is more intuitive for you. Compare viewfinders, control layouts.

If you buy the Nikon, there will likely be little or nothing to keep you from being absolutely happy with your decision. As a consumer today, you're in a win-win situation. The cameras you're looking at are great- you won't get the really short straw no matter which one you buy.

As far as new systems go, there is the need to consider that we're talking film to digital here. Lots of stuff has probably moved over the years, and with digital, there are quite a few new controls, a few ones that are now far more prominent, and then there's the whole digital side of everything that will be pretty new on either side.

[Photo-John]

I'm playing nice tonight

Very nice - well-said, reasonable, balanced, and friendly

[starriderrick]

Great thread.
Can you tell Photo-John loves his Canon? hehehe J.K.
Either camera delivers.It's all about what you are happy with.The 30D image quality is fantastic.Better in some ways,The D80 is stronger in...
I.M.H.O. I wouldn't trade in the D80 though...
Well, I may be a bit biased.
I have run 10,000 images through a D80 in the last 5 months. I finally figured out the Matrix Metering.
ISO 1000 - minimal noise easily fixable. WB settings are wrong sometimes .me?.I always forget to change the WB preset pic. when I change scenes.Sharp images are possible.You'll have to work at it...
With the right lenses(the best)ED glass Nikkor.The 50mm 1.8 D screams on this body, feather weight !!!!! Sweet.
Check out my user gallery.You'll see.

Do a keyword search... Nikkor_1.8D.
HA.Told you I was biased. hehehe.

B.t.w. I highly recommend the D80. :O)
Rick

[Frog]

I have noticed that the Canon forum people haven't responded. That might tell you something. "BOING"

[Photo-John]

WB settings are wrong sometimes .me?.I always forget to change the WB preset pic. when I change scenes.

If you're shooting RAW, always use auto white balance. That gives your camera the chance to do a better job than the presets, which it can usually do. And if you're shooting RAW, you can easily switch the white balance later, if you want. However, if you don't use auto white balance, you won't have the opportunity to go back to auto - that has to be done when you're shooting.

I've found Nikon's white balance to be among the best - better than Canon, which tends to be a bit on the warm side.

Who's biased?

[deckcadet]

the most recent nikon AWB seems to do an excellent job in most situations. In incandescent light, I tend to use Kelvin WB.

[Dave R]

I want to thank everyone for all of the feedback I received to this post. I will say - that all you Nikon fans are certainly enthusiastic about your cameras!!! The decision was very difficult for me, but after reading all of the replies, doing my research, and taking countless trips to the store to "play", I ended up with the D80 with the 18-200MM VR lens. :thumbsup:

I bought it 2 weeks ago, but have only taken about 50 pictures with it in an "automatic" mode. I'm still trying to figure it out, but it's an awesome camera and I'm really impressed with what it can do! I may need some one-on-one instruction to speed me along, or I may purchase an instructional DVD to help me learn the basics of Digital. I'll write more as I learn to use this "complex computer with a lens", as I put it.

Once again, THANK YOU, to all you Nikon enthusiasts, for helping me with my decision. I can’t wait to start getting creative with this thing!

Dave

[WsW-WYATT-EARP]

congrats on your great purchase ... I hope to someday in the near future add the D80

this is a great help The 4 Basics

Loupey has some great tutorials and help posted in the nature and wildlife forum ... but that one there is great

[Frog]

Nikon has this site http://www.nikondigitutor.com/index_eng.html which I use frequently.
Its not as detailed but easier to use than the owner's manual.
Just drop down to the d80 and click for the tutorial.

[deckcadet]

Congratulations! Welcome to the club

And you'll get even better results if you learn enough to move out of Auto