Camera Shy

[Overbeyond]

Taken using available light, this picture was the result of a visit to a small street tea house. Besides everything elso do you feel the inclusion of the tea flask etc detracts from the overall.
Many thanks
Tom

[Greg McCary]

The child is adoreable but feel that as much as the tea flask the ladies eyes being partially closed hurts the image. I feel a tight crop of the child might help.
Greg

[Frog]

I'm afraid the tea flask does detract. Perhaps if it was in better focus and/or not half in the frame it wouldn't.
The woman and child are great.

[Overbeyond]

Thanks Greg and Frog.
I was going to clone the flask out but rightly or wrongly decided against. Greg this is my personal opinion; I agree that there might be a shot there of the child alone but I enjoyed the result when I saw the mothers half closed eyes, as if she was happy for her daughter to get the full attention. But having said that I would imagine this shot would not stand a chance in competition because of the closed eyes.
I have been unsure about this image for a while and let it sit on my HD but I revisited it a lot.
Tom

[molaselake]

I don't think the tea flask and whatever is next to it detracts from the image. However, I do think the woman's half-closed eyes, do. It's interesting because the two objects on the left actually mimic the woman and child. The woman is wearing red and beige - the object is red and beige. The kid is wearing a bit of green, and the lotion bottle (or whatever it is) is green. The first is larger than the second in both cases. Perhaps if they were darkened a bit, the focus would not be so intent on them.

[Greg McCary]

Thanks Greg and Frog.
I was going to clone the flask out but rightly or wrongly decided against. Greg this is my personal opinion; I agree that there might be a shot there of the child alone but I enjoyed the result when I saw the mothers half closed eyes, as if she was happy for her daughter to get the full attention. But having said that I would imagine this shot would not stand a chance in competition because of the closed eyes.
I have been unsure about this image for a while and let it sit on my HD but I revisited it a lot.
Tom

I agree this is a very beautiful image, not all photographs have to be competition winners to be beautiful. The child and it's expression steals the show on this one., also as molaselake stated the clothes as well.
Greg

[CLKunst]

Tom ~
I have returned to this image for a few days now. Thisone has a lot of yes and no going on but overall it's growing on me. The DOF is what keeps me looking I think, it's got so much POP almost 3D. You're in story telling mode for sure. The tea things in the background are what they are, and as molaselake pointed out there is some interesting repetition happening there. The mother and child really are exquisite in their coloring, their clothing, their positions. I am not a person who believes the eyes of a subject should always be open or looking directly at the camera, but to me this looks less like her smiling with Mama pride and more like you caught her mid blink. Did you realize at the time that this was the case and just run with it? I doubt the view screen could have translated that much detail even if you did peek. If it had been me I would have let the auto drive pop off more than one just to make sure (two for flinching, three for blinking). I know how it goes, it looks absolutely amazing on the back of the camera but once it's home and up on the monitor. . .how did that fly get into my ointment? D'oh [Smacks forehead.] But I'm sure that's what you meant when you stated "besides everything else". At the end of the day, you like it and it makes you happy even though its two inches shy of perfect. 'Nough said.

Best,

[gahspidy]

Tom, the closed eyes do not hurt the image for me at all. As a matter of fact, I'm somehow intrigued by the unusual look she has because of it. The Tea flask could be burned in and blurred more to subdue it, but I would not want to see a crop of this or have you clone anything out here. I think this is very good.

[MarcusK]

A little overdue, but here's my opinion, after long sessions of simply looking at the image!

The DOF is what allows the eyes to be half closed....a quick look at the pic would definitely hurt the image since then we will automatically associate the closed eyes as a mistake! (which could be) but when you really take the time to look at the image, you realize with the fuziness, that the woman, the mother, is not necessarily blinking, but rather has a dreamy look, just as the soft blur around her does...

As for the tea flask, i do agree that having it completely in would have been better! but i dont see it as bad here... not at all, for al the reasons mentioned as well as context... it is a hint, it tells part of the story as well, so it is only right to have part of it in!

This is quite the image...:thumbsup: ... i have had my share of "villagers" and people living away from "new-society" and you have in this picture as well as the other, captured their essence in their faces.... which for me, by default, eliminates any issues that a technical mistake might have caused!

Marc

[Overbeyond]

Liz; Thank you. Your observation regarding the 'relationship' between the objects and the humans and their proportions is really interesting indeed. I never picked that aspect up.

Greg; Thanks again for coming back on this again and I appreciate your support.

Cl: Thanks for such and extensive and interesting critique. It was taken pretty quickly with a lot of hoping for the best. Sometimes I get a bit too excited when I see a potentially good shot that the technical aspects are totally forgotton about and things can become a little snap shotish if you know what I mean. I'm never really comfortable taking shots like these even though I always ask if it is ok for me to take their photograph. The adults always seem to really want to pose and almost stand to attention. Perhaps it's a formality that doesn't happen very often in their lives. No it's not perfect but to be honest I actually love it.

Gary; I'm happy when you said about not cloning and I feel justified in leaving the flask in there. I'm also glad you liked the eyes because to me this was a good result (even though I never noticed at the time) and perhaps added a little extra interest. Many thanks.

Marcus; I appreciate you taking the time to analyse the photograph and I respect the words in your final paragraph. The DOF was not too successful in the original so PS came to my rescue with Gausian Blur. I understand and enjoy your reading of the shot.

Tom

[readingr]

Tom,

First thing I think this excellent, and shows a foriegn way of life brilliantly. The lady seems to be in a dreamy state thinking of other things, or possibly looking at what the child is looking at with fondness.

The child's expression is priceless and the apron with the duck and the mobile looks like any other culture today other than the tardyness of the apparel.

For me what hurts this photo is the excessive blur and the lack of attention to detail when you selected the items to blur, e.g. the shadow behind the lady's shoulder just jumps out at me and shouts 'manipulated' because of her proximity to the wall and the incomplete bluring of the shadow which a lens could never do.

I would suggest less blur because of this.

Roger

[jhousman6]

This is a great shot. It paints a large picture. Alot of emotion. Nice capture

[Overbeyond]

Jhouseman6; Thank you so much.

Roger; I am not seeing this exact problem you are pointing out but I acknowledge that you have a sharp eye when it comes to these things. I made one selection only of the entire background and if anything I used too blur than normal, the reason being to subdue the flask.I checked the shadow against the original and it looks similar albeit blurred a lot more.I assure you there was no lack of attention LOL as I spent a good while trying to sort this out. Funnily enough Roger if I did err I would consider the rim of the hat, especially near the top, to be the crisis area.
Thanks Roger

[GB1]

Tom - I havent read the other reviews. I think it's a decent portraiture, but I find the background distacting. I would have tried to move that water cooler outta the way. Maybe if you zoomed in to show only what is needed to show their faces, and/or converted to b&w, it would strengthen the photo. Excellant and creative use of DOF ............

GB

[readingr]

Tom,

I worte that response very quickly as work at the moment is crazy especially as I'm trying to get everything sorted before going on hols tonight.

I agree about the hat and to me the shadow looks two toned with a definate edge black and grey which jumps put at me everytime I look at it. It could be that you applied a feather which is too small that changed the selection for you so leaving the two tone effect.

Rather than use so much bluring I would have propably desaturated the flask and blurred less to get a better effect.

Must check my phrasing when writing things in a hurry:blush2: . Apologies for any offence.

Roger

[Overbeyond]

Goodness Roger no offence at all. i always value your critique because I know you have a great eye for detail. I think I will have another play with this pair.
Have a great holiday.
Tom

Tom,

I worte that response very quickly as work at the moment is crazy especially as I'm trying to get everything sorted before going on hols tonight.

I agree about the hat and to me the shadow looks two toned with a definate edge black and grey which jumps put at me everytime I look at it. It could be that you applied a feather which is too small that changed the selection for you so leaving the two tone effect.

Rather than use so much bluring I would have propably desaturated the flask and blurred less to get a better effect.

Must check my phrasing when writing things in a hurry:blush2: . Apologies for any offence.

Roger

[livin4lax09]

Brendan,


Definitely a nice people shot, and I love this sort of documentary photography. however, the half closed eye does not help this shot very much. The bokeh is nice, but knowing that it is PPed in, you have to be more careful about your background blurring. there are a few spots where it shows through. First, on the top of the hat and back of the brim. If the DOF was large enough to capture the eyes of the mother and the child, the back and tip of the hat wouldn't be blurred out, especially since the closer you get to the camera from the focal plane, it blurs quicker, so if the kid's eyes are in focus, the hat should be too. Also, the table on her right side, there is definitely a portion that is on the exact same plane as her face is, so part of it should be in focus, unless you're using something like a lensbaby. On that note, the DOF looks faked because of the reason I stated. Toning it down a bit may help to isolate the subject yet still retain a realistic look. Also, on the kid's left side there is a section of the cloth that was missed with the blur. Just a couple things to watch out for/be wary of when applying a blur effect. also, be very careful with your edges. It's a dead giveaway that blur has been applied PP.

Other than that, a little smaller aperture would have helped to get the child in the DOF as well, because she's right on the boundary of being sharp/blurry.

Very nice light and color, no doubt.

I do like the interaction here that I feel. Even though there seems to be real physical interaction between the mother and (I'm assuming) her child, you can almost feel it, that the child is hers, and she is proud of it.

It's a nice shot, you just have to be careful PPing it. DOF is one of the hardest things to fake in an image, that's why most people just shoot wide open for that nice and blurred BG. But it's what makes the shot. The background is your butter, the subject your knife.

[Overbeyond]

Brent thanks so much for such and excellent and extensive critique.
First off I must admit that I dislike having to do any major work in PS as i am never 100% happy with my attempts. In this case I only choose to give the background extra blur in order to subdue those flasks.But you are right in all your comments about it.
I've always had second thoughts as to whether i should have done this blurring at all and I am all the time returning to the original and saying to myself "you ****** it up". I wiil post the original tomorrow and ask everyone how they feel about it.

BTW Brent you can call me Tom

Brendan,


Definitely a nice people shot, and I love this sort of documentary photography. however, the half closed eye does not help this shot very much. The bokeh is nice, but knowing that it is PPed in, you have to be more careful about your background blurring. there are a few spots where it shows through. First, on the top of the hat and back of the brim. If the DOF was large enough to capture the eyes of the mother and the child, the back and tip of the hat wouldn't be blurred out, especially since the closer you get to the camera from the focal plane, it blurs quicker, so if the kid's eyes are in focus, the hat should be too. Also, the table on her right side, there is definitely a portion that is on the exact same plane as her face is, so part of it should be in focus, unless you're using something like a lensbaby. On that note, the DOF looks faked because of the reason I stated. Toning it down a bit may help to isolate the subject yet still retain a realistic look. Also, on the kid's left side there is a section of the cloth that was missed with the blur. Just a couple things to watch out for/be wary of when applying a blur effect. also, be very careful with your edges. It's a dead giveaway that blur has been applied PP.

Other than that, a little smaller aperture would have helped to get the child in the DOF as well, because she's right on the boundary of being sharp/blurry.

Very nice light and color, no doubt.

I do like the interaction here that I feel. Even though there seems to be real physical interaction between the mother and (I'm assuming) her child, you can almost feel it, that the child is hers, and she is proud of it.

It's a nice shot, you just have to be careful PPing it. DOF is one of the hardest things to fake in an image, that's why most people just shoot wide open for that nice and blurred BG. But it's what makes the shot. The background is your butter, the subject your knife.

[yogestee]

Tom,,I love this type of photography,,,its raw,personal and "warts and all"... I'm going the other way here,,I would include even more of the tea flask and possibly the entire table..This would give this image a reference point...The tea flask is out of focus enough not to be too distracting..The woman's half closed eyes do bother me a tad though..

Nice image..

Jurgen

[livin4lax09]

BTW Brent you can call me Tom

haha oops, read the name at the end of your quote and accidentally attributed it to you. many apologies!

[availablelight]

I think it's great, I like the tea flask I think it completely belongs. I agree with a previous poster that if anything it almost looks a little 3D though, tht is the first thing that I noticed when I saw the image. I would never have thought about the flask if you hadn't mentioned it.