Nikon D50/ D70 & Lens 18-55/ 18-70 - any suggestions?

[calmhorizon]

Hello,

I am new to the forum and was happy to find a place where we could learn from many expert photographers. I would like your advice regarding nikon digital slr cameras and lens. I haven't much experience with photography but would like to learn and improve my skills over time, since it is a real hobby for me.

As for the products, after doing some research, I think the nikon d50 would be good for me mainly b/c it is more affordable. But I am not sure whether I should get the 18-70 mm lens separately, rather than getting the kit which includes the cheaper 18-55mm. I've heard consistantly that the 18-70 mm lens is much better; however I wonder how much more I would have to pay for it separately?

Secondly, since the d70 kit includes the 18-70mm, I wonder if the d70 would be the better route, overall (considering the price and me being a novice). So, would someone recommend which would be the best way and also show me a good place to buy them?

Thank you for any help.

[Franglais]

Hello,

I am new to the forum and was happy to find a place where we could learn from many expert photographers. I would like your advice regarding nikon digital slr cameras and lens. I haven't much experience with photography but would like to learn and improve my skills over time, since it is a real hobby for me.

As for the products, after doing some research, I think the nikon d50 would be good for me mainly b/c it is more affordable. But I am not sure whether I should get the 18-70 mm lens separately, rather than getting the kit which includes the cheaper 18-55mm. I've heard consistantly that the 18-70 mm lens is much better; however I wonder how much more I would have to pay for it separately?

Secondly, since the d70 kit includes the 18-70mm, I wonder if the d70 would be the better route, overall (considering the price and me being a novice). So, would someone recommend which would be the best way and also show me a good place to buy them?

Thank you for any help.

I have the D70 with the 18-70 which I bought in a kit. I am very satisfied with this combination. I've never tried the D50 or the 18-55. The tests say that the 18-70 is very good and that the 18-55 is not too far behind so I wouldn't let that worry you too much. You sometimes see the 28-80 or 28-100 proposed with the D70 but avoid this.

I do advise you to buy a kit. You get a much better deal than buying the D50 and 18-70 seperately.

The D50, D70 and D70s are all very similar: The D70 is the original model. It's very well-made with lots of features from the professional DSLR's. It sold a million. About six months ago it was replaced by:

- the D70s which is a D70 with a bigger LCD screen
- the D50 which is a simplified version with an SD card (like a point-and-shoot) rather than a CF card, the 18-55 and some of the professional features turned off

If I were you I would look around for a discounted D70 kit at the same price as the D50 kit.

Charles

[calmhorizon]

I have the D70 with the 18-70 which I bought in a kit. I am very satisfied with this combination. I've never tried the D50 or the 18-55. The tests say that the 18-70 is very good and that the 18-55 is not too far behind so I wouldn't let that worry you too much. You sometimes see the 28-80 or 28-100 proposed with the D70 but avoid this.

I do advise you to buy a kit. You get a much better deal than buying the D50 and 18-70 seperately.

The D50, D70 and D70s are all very similar: The D70 is the original model. It's very well-made with lots of features from the professional DSLR's. It sold a million. About six months ago it was replaced by:

- the D70s which is a D70 with a bigger LCD screen
- the D50 which is a simplified version with an SD card (like a point-and-shoot) rather than a CF card, the 18-55 and some of the professional features turned off

If I were you I would look around for a discounted D70 kit at the same price as the D50 kit.

Charles

Thank you so much for your helpful advice.

I just looked through some D50 and D70 kits that are on sale at Ebay and found that there is quite a wide selection! There were some that offered two types of lens, some even more, with many more accessories as well. Would you recommend me to get just the 18-70mm lens with the camera body, or would it be wiser to get another lens as well, together with the extra accessories (though I am not sure how much I'd need them in the future)? Besides the 18-70mm lens, would there be another one you might suggest?

If I am able to get the D70 kit at the same price as the D50, that would be really great, but I am worried that the D70 might be too advanced/ complicated in features for a beginner like me - or would you think so?

[Franglais]

Thank you so much for your helpful advice.

I just looked through some D50 and D70 kits that are on sale at Ebay and found that there is quite a wide selection! There were some that offered two types of lens, some even more, with many more accessories as well. Would you recommend me to get just the 18-70mm lens with the camera body, or would it be wiser to get another lens as well, together with the extra accessories (though I am not sure how much I'd need them in the future)? Besides the 18-70mm lens, would there be another one you might suggest?

If I am able to get the D70 kit at the same price as the D50, that would be really great, but I am worried that the D70 might be too advanced/ complicated in features for a beginner like me - or would you think so?

The D70 and the D50 on full auto mode work pretty much the same. You only discover the extra features on the D70 when you read the instruction manual and start making experiments. Personally I leave mine on full auto most of the time, it's smarter than I am...

Usually people buy the Nikon 70-300 as a second lens for the D70. This gives you a really long telephoto. As far as accessories go you need a large (bigger than 256MB) CF card. Personally I wouldn't be without a fully compatible flash like the Nikon SB600. And I find that Nikon's RAW file editor Nikon Capture is essential but it requires some experience.

Charles

[calmhorizon]

(see other)

[calmhorizon]

The D70 and the D50 on full auto mode work pretty much the same. You only discover the extra features on the D70 when you read the instruction manual and start making experiments. Personally I leave mine on full auto most of the time, it's smarter than I am...

Usually people buy the Nikon 70-300 as a second lens for the D70. This gives you a really long telephoto. As far as accessories go you need a large (bigger than 256MB) CF card. Personally I wouldn't be without a fully compatible flash like the Nikon SB600. And I find that Nikon's RAW file editor Nikon Capture is essential but it requires some experience.

Charles

Oh I see.. hehe..but seriously, when it comes to reading instruction manuals, I can't say I am enthusiastic and enjoy doing it.. even though it is essential. =p ..Well, after some more reading and looking at the differences, I've finally concluded that there is just a slight difference of +/ - $130 if I do want the D70. As far as picture quality goes, how great a difference is there?
Still, I am considering if I should save that for purchasing the Flash for the camera instead, since it's not included in the accessories...
May I show you what this one store called Cameta Camera offers for the two? The list looks really good for both.. but since you might know more about what to look for, I'd really appreciate any advice you could give. If the price difference is not great, but the higher quality and overall gain is worth the extra hundred, then maybe that would help me weigh it out and decide. But since I am a student, a few hundreds is still a big deal for me..so please understand. =p Thank you so much again..

The first one is sold for the price of US $939.95, and the D70 is for US $1,149.95, before the rebate...

#1)

Nikon D50 Digital SLR Camera Body - Black with:
Rechargeable EN-EL3 Lithium-Ion Battery
MH-18a Quick Charger
Video Cable
USB Cable
Strap
Body Cap
Eyepiece Cap
Rubber Eyecup
Accessory Shoe Cover
PictureProject CD-ROM
Instruction Booklets
Blank Nikon USA Warranty Card
Nikon 18-70mm AF-S DX f/3.5-4.5G ED-IF Nikkor Lens with:
Nikon Front Lens Cap
Nikon Rear Lens Cap
Nikon CL-0915 Soft Case
Nikon HB-32 Bayonet-Type Lens Hood
Instruction Booklet
Blank Nikon USA Warranty Card
1GB 80x High Speed SecureDigital™ Card
USB 2.0 High Speed SecureDigital™ Card Reader
Digital Image Recovery Software
Nikon Compact SLR Camera Bag
Memory Card Storage Wallet
EN-EL3 Lithium-Ion Battery Pack
5 Piece Lens Cleaning Kit
Microfiber Cleaning Cloth
30 Free High Quality Prints and Enlargements

#2)

Nikon D70 Digital SLR Body with $100 Cash Back Mail-In Rebate Coupon! and:
Nikon EN-EL3 Rechargeable Battery
Nikon MH-18 Quick Charger
MS-D70 Battery Holder
USB Cable (PC &Mac)
Video Cable
LCD Cover
Nikon Body Cap
Nikon Eyepiece Cap
Nikon Wide Digital Strap
Nikon PictureProject 1.0 Software CD
Nikon PictureProject 1.0 Reference Manual CD
Nikon Capture 4 Software (Trial Version CD)
Instruction Booklets
Blank Nikon USA Warranty Card
Nikon 18-70mm AF-S DX f/3.5-4.5G ED-IF Nikkor Lens with:
Nikon Front Lens Cap
Nikon Rear Lens Cap
Nikon CL-0915 Soft Case
Nikon HB-32 Bayonet-Type Lens Hood
Instruction Booklet
Blank Nikon USA Warranty Card
Transcend 1GB 80x High Speed CompactFlash™ Card
USB 2.0 High Speed CompactFlash™ Card Reader
Digital Image Recovery Software
Nikon SLR System Case
EN-EL3 Battery
30 Free High Quality Prints and Enlargements
Microfiber Cleaning Cloth


On a side note, would anyone know if, with the news of the D200 and newer Nikons releasing sometime in December (?), should the prices for these cameras then fall significantly? Thanks.

[Franglais]

Let me start out by saying that most of the components in the D50 and the D70 (and the D70s) are identical. They use the same 6MPix Sony sensor, same autofocus, same processor. The only differences that are going to affect image quality are as follows:

1. The image treatment software in the D70 was tuned to give slightly dark JPG's in low contrast situations, to avoid burning out the highlights. On the D50 the software is tuned to give normally-exposed JPG's with poppier colours to please people moving up from point-and-shoots

2. The D50 uses a simplified 450 element exposure sensor whereas the D70 uses the 1005 element sensor from the professional cameras. Exposure on the D70 is theoretically more accurate because it has a finer sensor, but the reviews I've seen of the D50 haven't mentioned any problem with exposure.

Apart from that - you start to get into really esoteric things like - the D50's built-in flash can't pilot secondary flashes remotely. That's important to me but not to you for the time being. I don't know the D50 specs off by heart but I don't think I've missed anything.

I looked at your list for the D50 and the D70 and they seem to be equivalent. You don't get the trial version of Nikon Capture with the D50 but you can download it anyway.

The release of the D200 will make no difference to the price of the D50 or the D70, it's not in the same category. The release of a D50s might, but I haven't seen many clues about this.

Charles

[swmdrayfan]

One more thing, and this is vital. If you're going to buy on-line.....buy from a reputable dealer. If you're buying on ebay, check the feedback. Check various photo forums for advice on purchasing from a large scale camera outlet. Most everyone swears by B & H.
If you see a deal that looks too good to be true, it probably is. Look out for 'bait & switch' tactics. Ask the other forum members here for their recommendations. Go to the CAMERA DEALER FEEDBACK forum on this site. You'll get a good idea about who's good and who's out to gouge you.

[calmhorizon]

Thanks a lot, Charles. (And sorry about late response). That is interesting to know- about the differences and how they affect image quality. I will have to experiment much more in order to fully grasp this, but for now, I can see a clear positive difference in image quality in the D70. I do love how vivid and yet very naturally colored the images produced by the D70's are. Such important, yet subtle difference compared to images produced by the D50. But I might prospond this investment until later. There's so much work involved in shopping for something as big as cameras, for now.

Some of my main concerns now are actually finding the best (lowest prices and most trustworthy service) stores. So thank you for the good tip, swmdrayfan.

Also, I wonder if it's best to start by getting the camera with the lens first, then take time for the other accessories. Or, if it's better to purchase them all in one package, which does seem like a great sum (but may be more convenient- but how much a bargain?). Accessories like the battery, 1GB CF card, camera case, a tripod, I think are the basic needs, though, right? So how did you folks do it?

Thanks again, for your responses.

[Franglais]

...
Also, I wonder if it's best to start by getting the camera with the lens first, then take time for the other accessories. Or, if it's better to purchase them all in one package, which does seem like a great sum (but may be more convenient- but how much a bargain?). Accessories like the battery, 1GB CF card, camera case, a tripod, I think are the basic needs, though, right? So how did you folks do it?

Thanks again, for your responses.

I think your needs in order of priority are:

1. Camera case or better a camera bag to carry the thing around (immediate)
2. 1GB CF card (within first 2 months)
3. Battery (you can do 400 shots with a single recharge on the original battery)
4. Tripod (may never need it)

I already had tripod and camera bag from my existing collection of cameras. I added the battery and 1GB cards when I bought the D70 because I had a job to do the next week that involved photographing 500 people..

Charles

[natethomas]

I'm in a similar situation - except I've ruled out the D50. I'm deciding between the D70 and D70s kits. B&H Photo has the D70 kit for $929 after rebate and the D70s kit is $1199 - it's pretty much $1150+ everywhere online. The reason that I've ruled out the D50 is that I want to get into more advanced photography eventually and the D70/s is better for more manual use.
I too looked at Cameta Camera and they have the D70s kit for around $1080. For the roughly $200+ difference between the D70 and D70s I could get the 70-300 lens and the wireless remote plus a 512 MB compact flash card.
I'm not sure how long B&H will have the D70 kits as most internet sites no longer carry them. The subtle differences between the to '70' camers doesn't make much difference to me. I'm probably going to order the D70 kit in the next few days from B&H.
-Nate

[calmhorizon]

Very nice, Charles.. now I have an idea of what to expect. (The tripod is for photographing ourselves..like for our family.. hehe.. it can also be used for video-taping)

Nate, that sounds wonderful. I hope you will be able to get the camera, everything will go well with the order, and that you'll find it meeting your desires. And thank you, I might consider B&H services as well; their displays as we can see are much nicer.

[calmhorizon]

Now... I am having a dilemma again, because I don't even know if this whole series (or the equivalent) is right for me. I hope you guys could help me. My main uses for the camera will be for family portraits, journal and nature photography (perhaps for about 75% of the time) and less of skillful photography (which is about 25% of the time, though it is of great appeal). I desire quality pictures, which is of much importance for me, and also the option for experimentation in the arts. For this, I don't know if I should go with a SLR camera at all, or if an advanced one would be adequate. Another concern is the weight and size of the camera. As I won't be the only one using it, this might be an inconvenience for someone who only would like to take casual pictures and be able to carry the camera anywhere. This aside, would an advanced compact camera provide as quality pictures? And if I would still like the option for experimentation in art photography, what are some things I need in a digital camera? Could you point me to some options of manufacturers and models aside from or including the ones mentioned here, that would be good for these uses ($1000 would be my high end for the price, though preferably lower ~$600) ? Thank you. And Happy Thanksgiving, from the US.