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[Fotowillem]

Mamiya 6 MF+50mm lens

[Chunk]

Mamiya 6 MF+50mm lens

There's a feeling of isolation and uncertainty here for me.

[almo]

Mamiya 6 MF+50mm lens

I have been trying since yesterday to figure out what it was about this photo that has been throwing me off. It is a very well renderd composition. I get a real feeling of uncertainty from that little girl, but sadly I can't get rid of the idea that she is just picking her undies out of her butt. Sorry, it's just what I see.


almo

[shesells]

lol almo! I was embarrassed to say what I thought. I've seen that look a million times, it's the look of a child that had an accident in their pants. I just saw it yesterday with a little girl at a play area in the mall. She's an adorable little girl, but I don't think the shot is very flattering of her. However, who ever caught that look on film? I've never seen it. So maybe you have something going here. I'm serious.

Kit

[smallfrypics.com]

I have been trying since yesterday to figure out what it was about this photo that has been throwing me off. It is a very well renderd composition. I get a real feeling of uncertainty from that little girl, but sadly I can't get rid of the idea that she is just picking her undies out of her butt. Sorry, it's just what I see.


almo

I have never laughed so hard!!!!!!!! I am crying...........

[megan]

I have never laughed so hard!!!!!!!! I am crying...........

I'll just blurt it out. Can we be a little more respectful in our responses to what people post? I know we're all a little confused about this new forum and what is going to go on here, but blatantly making fun of one's image isn't what we have in mind. Not to say that a little levity won't be tolerated - I'm certainly not going to dictate "We Must Be Serious In Every Post." We *can* have a sense of humor - just - please be a little more thoughtful.

Willem has posted many wonderful images on other forums. A book of his photographs has been published - quite an achievement! I strive towards that sort of achievement with my own work. It's okay if you don't feel that this is one of his stronger images. But please, let's not mock each other.

Not yelling... just saying.

Megan

[shesells]

I'll just blurt it out. Can we be a little more respectful in our responses to what people post? I know we're all a little confused about this new forum and what is going to go on here, but blatantly making fun of one's image isn't what we have in mind. Not to say that a little levity won't be tolerated - I'm certainly not going to dictate "We Must Be Serious In Every Post." We *can* have a sense of humor - just - please be a little more thoughtful.

Willem has posted many wonderful images on other forums. A book of his photographs has been published - quite an achievement! I strive towards that sort of achievement with my own work. It's okay if you don't feel that this is one of his stronger images. But please, let's not mock each other.

Not yelling... just saying.

Megan

I hope you don't think I was making fun of willem. I too love his work. I would never mock anyone and my post was serious. I tried to figure out what I thought when looking at this photo and that's what I could not help but see. I've been around a lot of kids and see it all the time. So, instead of not saying anything like some do, I wanted to let him know. The only work I mock is my own and willem is so accomplished, It would be be ridiculous to compare my work to his. I'm not sure willem took it the way you did,but if you did Willem, I apologize for my comment, I only wanted to tell you what I saw.
Kit

[megan]

Kit,

It wasn't so much what *you* said. Without trying to duplicate the intent of the critique forum, Willem does need feedback on his work, whether it's negative or positive. No one has a home run all the time [except the Yankees GO YANKS!] It was more the response to you post - the snickering. I just wanted to nip it in the bud, really! And since it's a new forum, we're trying to set the tone - whatever tone that may be, we want this to be, above all, a respectful place. So I hope I didn't come off too harsh - I just want people to think twice before posting their one-liners.

Megan

[shesells]

Kit,

It wasn't so much what *you* said. Without trying to duplicate the intent of the critique forum, Willem does need feedback on his work, whether it's negative or positive. No one has a home run all the time [except the Yankees GO YANKS!] It was more the response to you post - the snickering. I just wanted to nip it in the bud, really! And since it's a new forum, we're trying to set the tone - whatever tone that may be, we want this to be, above all, a respectful place. So I hope I didn't come off too harsh - I just want people to think twice before posting their one-liners.

Megan

no problem at all Megan. It wasn't too harsh. I only spent one night crying and calling all my friends asking " Am I mean?" Kidding of course! Thanks for the post, Megan.
Kit

[Fotowillem]

I will answer soon my friends

Willem.

[almo]

It's okay if you don't feel that this is one of his stronger images. But please, let's not mock each other.

Not yelling... just saying.

Megan

\


I personally feel that this is a very strong image of real life. This is a thing that happens everyday all over the world. It's not a joke, it may be a humorous situation to an adult, but it isn't by any means a joke. Willem has done a wonderful thing here. He has captured the innocence of youth, and maybe even a bit of its awkwardness, and furthermore he did it well.

I am truly sorry Willem for starting anything that led to the mocking of this very wonderful image. Please forgive me for that.


almo

[shesells]

\


I personally feel that this is a very strong image of real life. This is a thing that happens everyday all over the world. It's not a joke, it may be a humorous situation to an adult, but it isn't by any means a joke. Willem has done a wonderful thing here. He has captured the innocence of youth, and maybe even a bit of its awkwardness, and furthermore he did it well.

I am truly sorry Willem for starting anything that led to the mocking of this very wonderful image. Please forgive me for that.


almo

That's exactly what I meant Almo. There is a lot of awkwardness that goes with the innocence of youth. I've never seen it portrayed before, but can invision a whole book of it. many moments, like when they're embarrassed, feelings are hurt, or think they are in trouble is well worth capturing. I was not mocking, were you? I've seen many photos that have not been commented on because no one knows what to say when they see those things in it. Then the person whos thread it is knows something is wrong, but doesnt know what. That's worse. I think it took guts for you to tell the truth, and it gave me the courage. Nothing wrong. Of course, there's a bit of humor in the subject but I'm sure Willem is mature enough to laugh it off. If it were me, I woud be glad someone pointed it out.
Kit

[almo]

That's exactly what I meant Almo. There is a lot of awkwardness that goes with the innocence of youth. I've never seen it portrayed before, but can invision a whole book of it. many moments, like when they're embarrassed, feelings are hurt, or think they are in trouble is well worth capturing. I was not mocking, were you? I've seen many photos that have not been commented on because no one knows what to say when they see those things in it. Then the person whos thread it is knows something is wrong, but doesnt know what. That's worse. I think it took guts for you to tell the truth, and it gave me the courage. Nothing wrong. Of course, there's a bit of humor in the subject but I'm sure Willem is mature enough to laugh it off. If it were me, I woud be glad someone pointed it out.
Kit

I understanbd that is what you meant, we are making the same argument.... I think your post was fine.


almo

[Clicker]

I'll just blurt it out. Can we be a little more respectful in our responses to what people post? I know we're all a little confused about this new forum and what is going to go on here, but blatantly making fun of one's image isn't what we have in mind. Not to say that a little levity won't be tolerated - I'm certainly not going to dictate "We Must Be Serious In Every Post." We *can* have a sense of humor - just - please be a little more thoughtful.

Willem has posted many wonderful images on other forums. A book of his photographs has been published - quite an achievement! I strive towards that sort of achievement with my own work. It's okay if you don't feel that this is one of his stronger images. But please, let's not mock each other.

Not yelling... just saying.

Megan

This post really threw me off and ~turned me off~ to posting on this thread... But, I've come around and want to comment on what I've noticed...I have looked at this photo several times, and agreed with Almos assessment of her looking like she is pulling out a wedgie... I thought it was funny and laughed out loud as well. What I don't understand is this:
Rude things (or posters displaying rude attitudes) are posted in other forums, and I have yet to see a moderator go in there and say "be respectful" or "don't mock each other" I am talking about people saying some very rude and inconsiderate stuff! And to me that is a whole lot worse of an attitude to have then coming on a post and saying something is funny. Yes, you could argue that that he only posted to say it was funny, but look through other threads, its been done before!?

Not only that, but this isn't supposed to be a critique forum, so most people have been posting stuff like " i like it" " yes this is artsy" or what have you... So, what is wrong with posting that something is funny?
Art is supposed to make you feel, at least that is what people have been saying, and This photo makes people feel like its funny, funny that he captured a little girl with that look on her face! Obviously he wanted some opinons... or would not have posted. I would be grateful to have Honest opinions!

Another thing that bothers me is this: the photo is what it is. Regardless of willem's past work, regardless of his being "published" etc. I'm sure that he is thick skinned, or should be, considering that he is so accomplished. You'd have to be. Yet people keep referring to his other work.. and how its art. Okay, thats fine. But we are talking about *this* photo.

Had I ~ a "NON" accomplished photographer posted this photo, it probably would of garnered the same reaction. Would someone have posted to not "mock" me? I think not. Would I have felt that I was being mocked? No! Cripes, we post to get reactions from people, and we want true reactions. My gosh! And what would my reply be to someone that said it was funny? I would of said, "Gee, Thanks, I never looked at it that way before, since I was there i never saw it the way you see it now.. Thanks for pointing that out!"

Now on another note: Darkman posted

The question I have, is this image really photography as art? Sure it's B&W. But, unlike many on this site, that in of itself doesn't make it artier (for lack of another word), or more artistic, or creative, for me.

And i agree with his assessment.. and thought that from the beginning... but with everyone protecting fotowillem... even his post was counter posted by TWO moderators..
Liz stated

I do think Willem has done some works of Art. It would be good to see more of his work here IMHO.

(( Everyone keeps going back to his works of art...))
Even Megan said:

Well - in the tradition of photography, I think, yes. If you look at "street" photography through the years, from Atget to Kertesz to August Sander to Cartier Bresson to Winogrand..... Willem's work is certainly art *in that tradition.*

Again, We are talking about **this** picture.

Did i like his other posts? Yes ! They were pretty awesome, I checked out his website, and really liked his work.
But I felt as though I couldn't post my opinion: "I don't feel this is art...." Because I would get my hand cyber-slapped, or be told that he has lots of artwork, has been published, not to mock him... and so on.

If I feel I can't post my thoughts, What do other people feel?
From reading this thread we have already been told not to laugh at her looking like she is pulling her wedgy out, and we have already been told that Willem is an artist. So, why not close the thread already? Done.

[Liz]

Hi Willem,

Thanks for posting in the new forum! You've created a bit of a discussion here, so I decided I would add my 2 cents (for what it's worth) since I view most of your images.

Your b&w images of "Life" are some of the most striking I have ever seen. I think many will agree with me. As with all artists - photographers, not every image falls into that catagory.

Regarding the above photo, I don't think anyone means to make fun of the image, but the look on the girl's face does does evoke a little curiosity. ;) As I see it, your portrait captures the innocence of childhood. However, IMO, it is not one of your best.

Willem, I would like to suggest that you post more of your images here. Or maybe post a link to a few of the images that you have posted on the other forums here. Maybe you could post the one you posted about a week ago in Viewfinder - the one of the young blond girl where people commented on the beautiful light you were able to capture.

Your images have always inspired me. IMO, you are an artist and I would like to see more of your work.

Just a note: If you are more comfortable posting in Viewfinder - just do it. But please continue to post your photos because so many people here have enjoyed them through the years.

Liz

Mamiya 6 MF+50mm lens

[almo]

Hi Willem,

Regarding the above photo, I don't think anyone means to make fun of the image, but the look on the girl's face does does evoke a little curiosity. ;) As I see it, your portrait captures the innocence of childhood. However, IMO, it is not one of your best.


Liz

Respectfully I would have to disagree with this statement. This picture blew me away. I love it. I have seen but a few images from Willem, and this one is my favorite. My first comment obviously didn't have the desired effect I intended. I want Willem and everyone else to know that I feel this is a very strong, whimsical, funny, emotional, and just plain good picture.


Willem please don't feell afraid, or what have you, to post a reply here. We want to know what you are thinking. Frankly, your slience has left a few of us confused. Please speak out.

almo

[Liz]

Almo,
I was not referencing you with any of my comments. My comments had nothing to do with what you said.

Also, the term "curiosity" was not meant as a negative. It was in reference to the questions that were posed in a few posts about what the girl was doing. The photo obviously did arouse curiosity. I did not mean it the way you are taking it.

"Willem please don't feell afraid, or what have you, to post a reply here. We want to know what you are thinking. Frankly, your slience has left a few of us confused. Please speak out."

Willem has been posting images on PR for a few years. Frequently he posts an image and doesn't reply for a while - sometimes more than a week, and sometimes, he doesn't reply at all. For various reasons - sometimes because he is ill. I have yet to see him take any offense.

Liz



Liz

Respectfully I would have to disagree with this statement. This picture blew me away. I love it. I have seen but a few images from Willem, and this one is my favorite. My first comment obviously didn't have the desired effect I intended. I want Willem and everyone else to know that I feel this is a very strong, whimsical, funny, emotional, and just plain good picture.


Willem please don't feell afraid, or what have you, to post a reply here. We want to know what you are thinking. Frankly, your slience has left a few of us confused. Please speak out.

almo

[almo]

Almo,
I was not referencing you with any of my comments. My comments had nothing to do with what you said.

Also, the term "curiosity" was not meant as a negative. It was in reference to the questions that were posed in a few posts about what the girl was doing. The photo obviously did arouse curiosity. I did not mean it the way you are taking it.





Liz

LOL...I was only disagreeing that this is not one of his best pictures. I think it is a great picture. Sorry for any missunderstanding....


almo

[Liz]

Almo

Thanks for the clarification. Sorry if I misunderstood.

Liz

LOL...I was only disagreeing that this is not one of his best pictures. I think it is a great picture. Sorry for any missunderstanding....


almo

[darkman]

I think this is a very nice image. I really like the angle and the cute pose that you could only get from a young girl. I enjoy this photo a lot. There are a few distractions in it, the people walking in the background and plant at the edge of the frame off her right shoulder. A 2x3 crop of this image may work better for me (the key work being "me").

The question I have, is this image really photography as art? Sure it's B&W. But, unlike many on this site, that in of itself doesn't make it artier (for lack of another word), or more artistic, or creative, for me.

On it's own it appears as a great grab shot taken at some event. Maybe shown with a series of other images that brings the viewer deeper into a subject or surroundings, it may have a larger impact. Then, the 1x1 crop may have more context.

My thoughts, Mike

[Liz]

Good post Mike. Well thought out and stated. I pretty much agree with your comments. I do think Willem has done some works of Art. It would be good to see more of his work here IMHO.

Liz

I think this is a very nice image. I really like the angle and the cute pose that you could only get from a young girl. I enjoy this photo a lot. There are a few distractions in it, the people walking in the background and plant at the edge of the frame off her right shoulder. A 2x3 crop of this image may work better for me (the key work being "me").

The question I have, is this image really photography as art? Sure it's B&W. But, unlike many on this site, that in of itself doesn't make it artier (for lack of another word), or more artistic, or creative, for me.

On it's own it appears as a great grab shot taken at some event. Maybe shown with a series of other images that brings the viewer deeper into a subject or surroundings, it may have a larger impact. Then, the 1x1 crop may have more context.

My thoughts, Mike

[megan]

I
The question I have, is this image really photography as art? Sure it's B&W. But, unlike many on this site, that in of itself doesn't make it artier (for lack of another word), or more artistic, or creative, for me.

Well - in the tradition of photography, I think, yes. If you look at "street" photography through the years, from Atget to Kertesz to August Sander to Cartier Bresson to Winogrand..... Willem's work is certainly art *in that tradition.*

Megan

[darkman]

Well - in the tradition of photography, I think, yes. If you look at "street" photography through the years, from Atget to Kertesz to August Sander to Cartier Bresson to Winogrand..... Willem's work is certainly art *in that tradition.*

Megan

Megan,

While I agree with your statement that it's "art in the tradition." I disagree that it's any more arty because it's B&W. Sure it's art in that it's hard not to be anytime you push the shutter button. But I think you missed, or don' t understand my point.

I could also probably make a good argument that B&W stays with street photography because it's hard to consistantly make high contrast color images (and people are following in the footsteps...)

A lot of street photography is done throughout the day. I've definately converted mid day shots to B&W because I liked the composition and I knew the high contrast light would work in B&W. I still don't think it's artier because of it being B&W.
Mike

[opus]

See now, I disagree that this photo is automatically funny, at least to me. I didn't see the "wedgie" thing at all (but, now I do). My first reaction to seeing this shot was to say, "someone teach this little girl to hold her head high!" And then I wondered through several scenarios that might cause her to be hanging her head...something as simple as shyness, or something as complex as low self-esteem. It's the kind of photo I might expect to see in a body of work a photojournalist presents from another country, a country where the photographer is looked at as an outsider, or maybe the conditions there are rough. Of course, the background and the child's clothing do not suggest hardship, so the photo is something of a paradox.

Personally, I like it. I *would* peg it as a great photo. I can't remember offhand what Willem's other work is, but this one is certainly thought-provoking. And it is very much on the order of Cartier-Bresson, etc.

[Fotowillem]

Mamiya 6 MF+50mm lens

I saw al the comments , maybe my work is not art I think its better to post in an other group ????

Greetings,

Willem.