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  1. #1
    Senior Member Ronnoco's Avatar
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    technique question

    I know that in using hdr for example that if you shoot with a tripod, you can combine 3 or more shots of different exposures to create a shot with great tonal variation.

    What I am now seeing elsewhere is great shots that have been taken by combining as many as a hundred shots in the same general location but not from the same camera position and_or a hundred shots that are handheld taken from a boat etc.

    I cannot even imagine how one would deal with registration and other technical issues in trying to do this and yet there must be some method that is not too time consuming or it probably would not be done at all.

    Does anyone have any idea how it is done?

    Ronnoco

  2. #2
    Learning more with every "click" mjs1973's Avatar
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    Re: technique question

    Ron,

    I remember seeing a video not too long ago, about this. I think there was a link posted to the video on this site, but I'm not positive. It was a computer program that took hundreds of photos, and compined them all into a huge image if I remember correctly. The photos didn't have to be taken at the same time, or even by the same person. They were all just fed into the computer, and the software did the rest. I'll do some searching and see if I can find it.
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  3. #3
    Jedi Master masdog's Avatar
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    Re: technique question

    You're wondering if there is some technique that allows you to take photos of a similar scene and create a composite image?

    Well...the HDR software that I have, as well as Adobe Photoshop, use an algorithm that finds the areas where the images are alike. Then it lines them up properly and creates the composite image.

    I don't know if it is possible to do it by hand, but if it is, I'm guessing it would be very time consuming.
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  4. #4
    Senior Member Ronnoco's Avatar
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    Re: technique question

    Quote Originally Posted by masdog
    You're wondering if there is some technique that allows you to take photos of a similar scene and create a composite image?

    Well...the HDR software that I have, as well as Adobe Photoshop, use an algorithm that finds the areas where the images are alike. Then it lines them up properly and creates the composite image.

    I don't know if it is possible to do it by hand, but if it is, I'm guessing it would be very time consuming.
    Yes, but in order to line them up properly it would seem that they would have to be pretty close in the first place requiring use of a tripod for the similar shots at different exposures.

    I saw one (and I use the number loosely) shot that was done on a boat that according to the photographer was made up of close to a hundred shots. Another boat and person was in the shot as well as waves, the horizon and the sky. I can't figure out how you can easily line up that many shots which would seem to be totally dissimilar (ie. waves and position of the boat and the sky would change) even using software unless I am missing some easy technique.

    Ronnoco

  5. #5
    Captain of the Ship Photo-John's Avatar
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    Re: technique question

    Ronnoco-
    Any chance you can dig up the page with that image? I'm curious. I can see it being possible with software. It might have to stretch some frames a bit and some frames would definitely get cropped. But there's no reason software couldn't register a whole bunch of images. It might be a demanding process. But it's totally doable.

    And this reminds me - I still haven't tried the HDR tool in CS2. Gotta give that a shot!
    Photo-John

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  6. #6
    don't tase me, bro! Asylum Steve's Avatar
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    Re: technique question

    Quote Originally Posted by Photo-John
    I still haven't tried the HDR tool in CS2. Gotta give that a shot!
    Well, I have a few times, and I'm not crazy about the way PS combines the shots. I'd have to look at the HDR tools more closely, and of course you're ultimately at the mercy of the original images you plug in (and their respective tonal ranges).

    The way I work now with digital is almost like the HDR tool. I use a tripod and bracket most all my shoots. I'll then start in ps with a frame that has the most "normal" overall exposure , adding over and under exposed frames to the file as seperate layers.

    I then mask the new layers, and "paint" in lighter and darker areas on the shot, bringing detail back to blown out highlight and closed up shadow areas, achieving a much wider overall tonal range.

    This technique works especially well with dramatic skies, which we get a lot here in Central Fla. The "normal" exposure of say a person or a building might have a somewhat blownout sky (light gray or that pasty white). The darker skies (with much more detail) from the underexposed frame can be stripped in...
    "Riding along on a carousel...tryin' to catch up to you..."

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  7. #7
    Panarus biarmicus Moderator (Sports) SmartWombat's Avatar
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    Re: technique question

    There is a package (for the Mac) that will montage a library of your images to create a new one, it picks images that contain similar shapes and colours for each tiny rectangle of the larger image. After you've seen one or two and gone wow, it's lost its impact and marketing seem to have given up on it.

    David Hockney did it by hand with his collages, the ones I remember most were those with polaroids but he did one of a tour across the USA I think.

    There is a Microsoft research labs project for collaborative photography that will assemble photographs of the same scene, taken at different times by different people and build an illustrated 3D rendering of the scene from the photos. It also manages zoom from different scale photos, and it handles photos from different viewpoints and focal lengths, it didn't seem to be mapped to an architectural model.

    There is a technique using a static camera (webcam is good) that uses images at different times and represents time in the photo by taking thin slices from each image and laying them together so that time flows left/right or top/bottom. Various algorithms for the allocation of slice width, time interval, and exposure compensation have been listed.

    David Hockney's manual method was indeed time consuming, and improbably done
    PAul

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  8. #8
    Senior Member readingr's Avatar
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    Re: technique question

    Ron,

    Is this what you had in mind?

    http://www.ptgui.com/

    Or this:

    http://www.tawbaware.com/maxlyons/gigapixel.htm

    Roger
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  9. #9
    Senior Member Ronnoco's Avatar
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    Re: technique question

    Here is a quite unusual work by Andrew Brooks, done with over 100 photos and I do not have a clue how, but it is certainly more like a painting than a photo and absolutely spectacular.

    Ronnoco
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails technique question-andrew-brooks_c.jpg  

  10. #10
    Senior Member Medley's Avatar
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    Re: technique question

    There may be an easier way, but here's how I would go about this(and yes, it would be somewhat time-consuming, because I'd still be doing the creative part manually)

    Go to http://www.russellbrown.com/tips_tech.html and scroll down to Photoshop CS2 scripts. Download Dr. Browns services. It's free, and about to save you LOTS of time.

    Dr. Brown's Services is a series of scripts designed to run from the 'tools' menu of Adobe Bridge. One of the scripts is "Dr. Brown's Merge-a-matic". Open Adobe Bridge, select your 100 photos and run Merge-a-matic. Then go have dinner, as this is going to take awhile. When you come back, you will have a Photoshop document with 100 layers, each layer having the name of the original photo.

    Turn off all but the bottom two layers (option-clicking the 'eye' icon of a layer will turn off all BUT that layer, then just turn on the other layer). Set the blend mode of the upper layer to Difference. You'll get a mostly black image. The white areas are where the two layers dont line up. Use the arrows keys in conjunction with the Move and Transform tools to get the most accurate match possible. (Note: this is where the user has the advantage over the program: the program will only move the image to achieve the best alignment). When you're satisfied, set the blend mode back to 'normal'.

    Now's the time to decide how best to blend the layers. On a smaller document, I would simply utilize the Blend If: command. But on a document with 100 layers, I think that would be rather tedious. I think that what might work best here is to arrange the layers in order, with the lightest image as the bottom layer, and the darkest image as the top. On the uppermost of the two visible layers, create a luminosity mask (Mac: Cmd-click the RGB channel in the channels palette, PC: Ctrl-click the RGB channel). Then switch back to the layers palette, and click the layer mask icon to apply the luminosity mask as a layer mask.

    Turn on the visibility of the next layer up, and repeat the whole process. Lining up the layers is actually the most time-consuming part of the whole process, but it's also the most important. Once you get into the swing of selecting the luminosity mask and applying it as a layer mask, the only real time taken is waiting for the computer to process the commands.

    When you get done, you'll have a file with 100 layers that reveals the lightest parts of the dark layers, and the darkest parts of the light layers. Right-clicking any of the layer masks and applying them would allow you to create a new layer mask for that layer, and further modify the image, if desired.

    That's the way I'd go about it anyway.

    -Joe U.

  11. #11
    Senior Member Ronnoco's Avatar
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    Re: technique question

    Thanks Joe, Roger, Paul, Steve, Photo-John, You have certainly given me lots to investigate and try. It will certainly keep me out of trouble.

    Ron

  12. #12
    Senior Member readingr's Avatar
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    Re: technique question

    Quote Originally Posted by Ronnoco
    Here is a quite unusual work by Andrew Brooks, done with over 100 photos and I do not have a clue how, but it is certainly more like a painting than a photo and absolutely spectacular.

    Ronnoco
    Ron,

    I remember seeing a documents describing this process which created this photo. I will try and find it again. Don't hold your breath because I can't remember where I found the document, web, book, magazine...

    Roger
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  13. #13
    Senior Member readingr's Avatar
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    Re: technique question

    Ron,

    Don't know if you've given up on this thread but found Andrew's site again and his December Blog shows a partly created version of the image, and its combinations of different photos done in Photoshop. Still looking for the magazine article I read.

    Hope that helps.

    His URL which I'm sure you have is:

    http://andrewbrooksphotography.com/real-gallery.htm

    Roger
    "I hope we will never see the day when photo shops sell little schema grills to clamp onto our viewfinders; and the Golden Rule will never be found etched on our ground glass." from The mind's eye by Henri Cartier-Bresson

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  14. #14
    Senior Member Ronnoco's Avatar
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    Re: technique question

    Quote Originally Posted by readingr
    Ron,

    Don't know if you've given up on this thread but found Andrew's site again and his December Blog shows a partly created version of the image, and its combinations of different photos done in Photoshop. Still looking for the magazine article I read.

    Hope that helps.

    His URL which I'm sure you have is:

    http://andrewbrooksphotography.com/real-gallery.htm

    Roger
    Yes, thanks. It does. My computer was on its way out at the time so I was not able to check out his web site. I now have a new one, and boy, what a difference.

    It still rather amazes me how he seems to visualize a final photo and then goes to work on shooting the pieces to put it together. Matching colours, lighting, resolution, etc. on that many photos seems next to impossible. I also don't understand how he retains quality and resolution through what would seem to be hundreds of edits and countless resaves during the process.

    Ronnoco
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  15. #15
    Senior Member readingr's Avatar
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    Re: technique question

    I just wish I had time to learn and the skill do it. The photos are incredible.

    This summer I intend to put some time aside to learn PSP and PSE and then decide if I need CS2 or not.

    My limited needs are almost all done is PSE 2 and some extras in PSP, e.g. curves, and B&W conversion for the control they give.

    Roger

    PS If I ever find the article I will post the reference or the article.
    "I hope we will never see the day when photo shops sell little schema grills to clamp onto our viewfinders; and the Golden Rule will never be found etched on our ground glass." from The mind's eye by Henri Cartier-Bresson

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  16. #16
    Learning more with every "click" mjs1973's Avatar
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    Re: technique question

    Hey Ron,

    Remember this thread? Someone emailed me this link, and it reminded me of this thread. This is the same video that I mentioned in my original post back in January.

    http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/view/id/129
    Mike

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  17. #17
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    Re: technique question

    Hi folks,
    I know this thread is quite old, but I've only just spotted in and it talks a bit about my work, I have lots more on my site at www.andrewbrooksphotography.com

    here's something I have been working on for a while and is the larger project which the boat shot comes from...


  18. #18
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    Re: technique question

    Oh, and if anyone wants to ask any questions on how I create this work I would be happy to help out...

  19. #19
    Senior Member Medley's Avatar
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    Re: technique question

    Andrew, those images are amazing! I'd love to learn this technique. If you'd care to give a rough explanation, I'm sure I wouldn't be the only one listening....

    - Joe U.
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  20. #20
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    Re: technique question

    Andrew, wonderful images. I'm interested in learning anything more on this subject you care to discuss.

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