PS issue, color shift while saving for the web...

[Seb]

Howdy guys,

As I have recently switched to Photoshop CS2 I now shoot RAW files in Adobe RGB mode. Saving the files "for the web" result in a truly atrocious color shift and some change in contrast rendering.... I always had some color shift issues in the past when using Photoshop Element 2 but I was shooting my picture in sRGB mode back then.

I have noticed that I can reduce the problem if I put my RAW files in sRGB mode (in Camera RAW) before working on them but there is still a shift when saving for the web.

I was wondering if there is any way to accurately preserve pictures for web displaying.

any imput would be much appreciated.

Seb

[Trevor Ash]

Hi Seb, I have the same problem and never found a solution that I am happy with. My solution is to add a final hue/saturation layer and add about 10 to 20% depending on the image. Sometimes I need to get a little more specific with the hue and saturation by masking it out with different levels of saturation. It sucks but I've not found anything better yet.

If you find something better by all means let me know.

[Peter_AUS]

Seb and Trevor,

I use Photoshop extensively to do all my photography work. I have my Mitsubishi Monitor Profiled using a Gretag MacBeth Eye One calibrator.

I do all my work on my RAW files after converting them using Capture One Pro, saving them as TIFF files and use aRGB as my working space. When I save them for the web I use File save for web and have no problems regarding colour shift at all in Internet Explorer.

Maybe showing a screen shot of your Adobe colour preferences might elude to something that might resolve the issues for you.

[Trevor Ash]

Some people just don't notice the differences or for reasons unknown to me don't have the differences. I'd like to see some discussion on this topic as it's been a thorn in my side for a while now.

Anyone interested should try this experiment:
Take your image in photoshop and convert it to sRGB. Use the save for web feature with the highest quality you want. Leave photoshop open but load a browser window with the image in it and size photoshop and your browser so that the two iamges are side by side. Look carefully at the differences in tone and color.

You may also want to press "Print Screen" on your keyboard to save a screenshot so you can use the color picker tool in PS to look at the color differences.

A final experiment would to to open the file you created when doing "save for web" in photoshop (ensuring that you've associated it with the sRGB profile) and test how it looks compared to both the screenshot and the original image.

You may be surprised with the results. I won't confess to understanding completely the reasons, but I've always understood them to be that IE (and any OS/software not color managed) is NOT the same as sRGB....it's just very close. I'm open to discussion on this topic though as I don't recall seeing a definitive answer on it from an expert (for which I'm not).

If you'd really like to see the differences without using color pickers use one of those gradient looking images that represents the color gamut of any profile.....I tried to find one on the web but couldn't find any. Maybe I'll look for one later at home and show the differences.

Another possible explanation could be that the monitor profile used isn't "perfect". Maybe I'll research this again later today. I remember doing it a while back but forgot what I learned.

[Seb]

Seb and Trevor,

I use Photoshop extensively to do all my photography work. I have my Mitsubishi Monitor Profiled using a Gretag MacBeth Eye One calibrator.

I do all my work on my RAW files after converting them using Capture One Pro, saving them as TIFF files and use aRGB as my working space. When I save them for the web I use File save for web and have no problems regarding colour shift at all in Internet Explorer.

Maybe showing a screen shot of your Adobe colour preferences might elude to something that might resolve the issues for you.

Hello Peter,

Thank you for your concern about the issue. Here is a screen shot of my settings. I chose these setting accordingly to informations I have found on:
www.computer-darkroom.com

My monitor is profiled with the Monaco Optix XR calibrator. I strongly doubt that it haves anything to do with my situation as I have constantly experienced the same thing since I started to use Photoshop Element 2 with my monitor not calibrated at all a year ago.

After some testing, turning my file into sRBG before working on them dramatically reduce the issue but it isn't a perfect solution. I remember having read somewhere (a long time ago) that images saved for web displaying weren't quite accurate as they were meant to be seen on a large variety of screens (possibly uncalibrated and of a low quality...). It doesn't justify the issue as I see it but it leads me to think that this is a problem frequently experienced.

regards

Seb

[Trevor Ash]

Here's that image I was talking about in my earlier post to use in the experiment. It's much better to use this than a "real" photo because it represent smuch more of the gamut. You'll want to pay special attention to the illusionary lines that you can see which sort of look like a stock market graph.

[Irakly Shanidze]

Seb, this IS a color profile issue. You are saying that your monitor is calibrated with a Eye One but according to the screen shot you are using a generic Abobe RGB profile. Essentially what happens is that colors that you see have nothing to do with what your monitor is supposed to show. Moreower, I bet that if you go to View>Proof Setup you will see CMYK as your default proof. This screws up the situation even more because you are adjusting colors for CMYK being in RGB space. Do the following:
1. Make sure that you have your monitor profile selected as a proof setup
2. Select your monitor profile as an RGB working space
3. Before you save for the web go to Edit>Convert to Profile>sRGB (this is a critical step)
If it does not help, you can burn me in a fire

[Trevor Ash]

Seb, this IS a color profile issue. You are saying that your monitor is calibrated with a Eye One but according to the screen shot you are using a generic Abobe RGB profile. Essentially what happens is that colors that you see have nothing to do with what your monitor is supposed to show. Moreower, I bet that if you go to View>Proof Setup you will see CMYK as your default proof. This screws up the situation even more because you are adjusting colors for CMYK being in RGB space. Do the following:
1. Make sure that you have your monitor profile selected as a proof setup
2. Select your monitor profile as an RGB working space
3. Before you save for the web go to Edit>Convert to Profile>sRGB (this is a critical step)
If it does not help, you can burn me in a fire

Hi Irakly, I hope things are going well for you lately and the recovery is going good.

I just wanted to come in real quick to say that all the advice you gave is not the proper way to setup a system......unless there's some new trick involved that you're showing us.

The place for you to specifiy your monitor profile is within the Windows OS, not Photoshop. Seb's screen he showed is correct. Attached is a screenshot on my system for where you specify the monitor profile (right clicked on desktop, chose properties, and eventually drilled down to color management).

Photoshop doesn't need to know what your profile is for your monitor, it figures it out from the OS or the color management engine. Now, it's true that some software applications (like Phase1 Capture One) require you to specify the monitor profile for it to properly display an image. I'm not sure why but I assume it's because they're not using the same color management engines as photoshop does.

[Trevor Ash]

I have a confession to make. I just finally tried my "experiement" that I suggested people do using regular images as well as that granger chart and I cannot detect any differences in the image as viewed from the browser, photoshop, or any combination of viewing scenarios. This is new to me so I'm not sure why things are operating properly for me now and they weren't a year ago when I was trying to solve this problem

[Seb]

Hello guys,

Thanks for commenting. Honnestly, things are getting even more confusing.
So I guess that I won't change my current color settings yet I will follow Irakly's suggestion for the proof settings.

I'll let you know if there is any improvement.

regards

Seb

[Seb]

Irakly, I have one question for you.

When you are saying to make sure to have my monitor profile selected as a proof setup
you mean that I should choose the last option of the list, "monitor RGB"???
(view>proof setup>monitor RGB)

This setting was set to "working CMYK" default and it does have a dramatic effect on the way my pictures appears in Photoshop. I haven't done much testing yet but I have a feeling that this must be the solution I am seeking for (or at least part of it)

thanks

Seb

[Seb]

Guys, I might have solved my issue.

1) I haven't changed my color settings at all. They stay exactly as they appears on the screen grab I posted few days ago.

2) In the proof setup I replaced "working CMYK" (the default setting) by "monitor RGB"

3) When I am done with a picture I directly save it for the web WITHOUT changing the color profile of the file. (I tried to change the profile in the edit menu before saving for the web but this resulted in a dramatic color shift....)

Then, I can open the picture saved for the web in my browser and it looks virtually identical to what I see in Photoshop. Actually, I am wondering if there could be an hair of a color switch but the difference is so infinitely small that this might just be my eyes playing me tricks....

I'd like everyone who had issues (Kelly among others) to try this and to tell me if it works for them or not.

best regards

Seb

[Seb]

Color shift still occurs. My color profile setting in Camera Raw was set to sRGB so I was working on sRGB files all the way which explain why there wasn't any shift before saving for the web. I apologize for the falses informations in my previous post.

If I work my files in RGB, the color shift happens as it always did and I basicaly tried everything that was suggested in this tread and then some more.

I'll get a serious book on color management sooner or later but the issue remain fully unsolved...

Seb

[Peter_AUS]

Seb My files are RAW aRGB files from the camera, I don't use sRGB, have profiled my monitor and use Save for the web after converting the files to tiff from Capture One software. I don't get any apparent colour shift with my files.

[Seb]

Seb My files are RAW aRGB files from the camera, I don't use sRGB, have profiled my monitor and use Save for the web after converting the files to tiff from Capture One software. I don't get any apparent colour shift with my files.

Hello Peter, my files are RAW aRGB from the camera too but they were treated like sRGB files by CS2 due to the mistaken setting in CameraRaw. I don't know if saving them into tiff files in Camera Raw before working on them could be of any help but I like the idea to work on RAW files all the way until I save them into a "final product". I only have one question at this point, what is your setting for monitor proofing in Photoshop?

regards

Seb

[Peter_AUS]

I have my Proofing setup to review for my printer an Epson 760, no change between image from no proof to proof.

As I said, I do my converting from RAW using Capture One Pro, save as tiff files and then into CS2, I don't use the RAW facility in Photoshop at all, don't get the image I want from it.

[Asylum Steve]

Y'all are MESSED UP! Just kidding... ;)

I've been doing this for quite a long time now, and, I dunno, maybe I was born under the star Adobe, but prints from my Epson 2200 match my monitor, exactly, all the time, and web jpegs converted from PSD files look exactly the same as the originals in photoshop.

When viewed on my web site (or just in a browser) they also look the same as they did in photoshop.

In fact, I recently printed out a jpeg file to use as a reference for some other work, and not only did the colors match the monitor, but also its higher resolution PSD file printed at 300dpi.

Now, I'm not saying you guys are doing anything wrong. Rather, I just extremely thankful I don't seem to have those problems...

BTW, I have never used ANY color management software to calibtrate and profile any of my devices or programs. I use the Adobe Gamma utility and saved the calibration as a custom monitor profile.

Anyway, I feel for those of you that are struggling with this. If you're like me, you are certainly much more critical of image color balance than the average viewer...

[opus]

I'm happy I saw this thread here. It's been a thorn in MY side too ... except I've figured it doesn't REALLY matter for the purposes I'm posting. I'm not trying to sell online or impress any editors with my work at the moment. But if I ever do get serious about it, I'll need to know how to solve this problem.