Swings in mono

[drg]

I've been playing in the Lightroom. One of many reasons I haven't posted much in this forum for sometime.

The signature and border added externally to this photograph, but otherwise this film image processed in Adobe Lightroom. From almost the last of the Kodak Portra 400 B/W stock.


Let me know if you are willing what type and model of monitor (LCD, CRT, Notebook, etc.) you are using as I'm seeing such variation myself even with lots of calibrations in submitted photos. If you are calibrating I'd also be interested.

The comments I've been trying to catch up on here in the Critique section add to my curiosity as to how photos are being viewed 'on the other end'.

Comments welcome. Thanks ! !

(Click on Photo to view larger image)

[Xia_Ke]

How are you liking Lightroom so far? Been playing around/getting familiar with it myself. Loving the possibilities so far. I like this shot. Some good contrasting. A hair washed out on the left but, nice shot overall

[drg]

Aaron,

Thanks for the comments. I wanted to post a few images done just in the Lightroom as opposed to selective adjustments. Thus the upper left and a few of the leaves are a bit hotter and closer to blown than I'd normally like. Too many areas that are identical elsewhere in the photograph that I don't want tweaked and without a selective tool like layers or or a selection brush, it is more likely to have this issue

I like the Lightroom a lot and having been using for sometime in beta/demo etc. :thumbsup::thumbsup:

Just got around to re-cataloging film scans and am quite pleased with what it lets me do quickly.

Thanks again for taking time to look and comment!

[Greg McCary]

The composition is ok but for some reason it lacks detail. The swings kind of get lost in the background. Maybe a color version would bring out more detail.
Greg

[drg]

The composition is ok but for some reason it lacks detail. The swings kind of get lost in the background. Maybe a color version would bring out more detail.
Greg

Greg,

Uh, it is b/w FILM, Kodak Portra 400. No color. Color alone does not contribute to detail.

I appreciate your taking time to comment and it was exactly what I was referring to about how people are viewing a lot of photos in the Critique Forum.

You should be seeing lots of delineation of the swing and the seats from the background. The swing seat in the lower right you should easily be able to see the links of the chain at the seat and a few above. There is lots of detail.

The house framed in the swing set has windows whose panes are easily countable in the larger version as posted.

I am curious to see if I can get some more replies regarding how people are viewing photo's in the forum and what hardware as mentioned.

Thanks -

[GB1]

Drg - I like the effect. It has a slightly surreal feeling to it, sort of like a lazy summer day (not sure when you took it however..). It is a bit cramped for me but I do like how your got depth with the angled swing. I personally like how there isn't anybody in it -- makes you think.

GB

[Hickeroar]

I like the subject matter. It's looks old-timey. It DOES seem a little bit too busy, but that could just be me.

Nice to see someone posting a film scan on here. Unusual these days...

[gahspidy]

drg, I am viewing on a Viewsonic 19" CRT that is calibrated with a GreatagMacBeth system. Temp is set for 6500K.
I can see the chain links you are reffering to, as well as the links of the other swings. I cannot make them out halfway past to the top, though. I can also see the window panes of the house you reffered to.The picture is very high contrast. I can easily see the swing seats stand out from the background. I can spot some people in the right area of the bg. A woman standing in front of a man, and a lone person to the right of them possibly walking a dog. The left side of the picture does have a slightly blown out area, on the trees, but not too bad. Another blown out area would be on the ground above the first and second swing seat (right area)I can still make out some leaf definition there, though
The overall picture seems a bit busy with the shadows and highlights, and the trees in the bg, but I do like the vertical lines of the trees and post behind the criss crossing diagonals of the swing set.
btw, I have done a Digital Vs. film comparison on my website that had some interesting result.

[readingr]

I see the same as Gary,

Monitor 19" LCD
Calibrated with Gretag Macbeth i1 two days ago. Normally done once a week.
Temp 6500K

Roger.

PS forgot to add nothing more to add.

[Hickeroar]

btw, I have done a Digital Vs. film comparison on my website that had some interesting result.

Those results ARE interesting. I'd never have guessed that the noise level would be that much higher on film. I wonder if you had used higher quality film how much the result would have differed. Like...Kodak Royal Gold or something like that. I really don't know where Fuji Xtra rates.

[drg]

So far, if there was prize, Gary (gahspidy) would win for noticing the people first. There's at least one other interesting person/place/thing, etc. in the photo. Here's a clue, there were several photo shoots going on in this park the day I was doing test shots. It may not really be visible in this size, I'll post a larger crop if needed eventually.

Yes, its a little busy and its a 'test' shot. I hadn't used this emulsion for a while, and the last of my stock though carefully stored was older. The client had work done before with this and asked if I had or knew where to get it. I did, but needed to test it first. It all worked out. I have only been shooting film by special request for about two and half years now. Just started in the past month of thinking about revisiting some film and organizing it with Lightroom.

Roger and Gary, thank for noting your setup, and yes, by intent the contrast is cranked up primarily to see how far with some older film images I could go without totally destroying the image. This was prepared on the last 21" MAG that just was at the first of the year pulled from its box (I stocked up a few years back). I found I liked them as well as either the older NEC's or Sony Artisans. They calibrated quite well and held it. The phospors were as accurate and stabile as the big Sony's or NEC's and significantly more economical. I've got a Syncmaster 850b LCD I've been playing with but not sure I like it all that well. I use the Gretag Macbeth systems as well to calibrate.

I am curious to know if regular Lightroom users are finding they need to go to PS/CSx (or editor of choice) for most sharpening needs, certainly digital. There's not 'enough' for most things where it is really needed and as it's just a slider, there's less control, but it doesn't, again, let you do too much either. . .

As I work on the archives, I am find Lightroom an invaluable tool for photo prep including printing, and the film elements in my archives I've been very pleased at the overall ease of use.

Thanks to everyone who has so far commented!

[Xia_Ke]

drg, just curious, have you been playing with just the contrast slider in LR for your contrasting? I've been using a combination of Recovery, Fill Light, Blacks, Contrast, Highlights, Lights, Darks, and Shadows sliders. If it is a shot that I'm converting to Black & White from color, I also use the color Saturation and Luminance sliders. Some seem like they would be redundant but, been able to get some cool black & white conversions experimenting with different combinations. Actually, the contrast slider is what I have used the least for contrasting in LR. Haven't found any need to go back to Photoshop for contrasting. I do still use Photoshop though for cloning and some spot removal as I think it gives better results than Lightroom's spot removal tool.

On to your pic. I see what looks like some activity just left of center in the background, though hard to make out exactly what it is in this resolution

[MonkeyWrench]

Hard for me see but if I had to guess it looks like a family getting their picture taken in front of the house framed by the swing.

[jkriminger]

ok...have a 19" samsung 931bf...i use whatever calibration is on the monitor...there is a man bending over back to screen between 1st and 2nd swing from left...there is a woman..brunette..30-35 years old sitting facing right hand corner of screen between 2nd swing and 3rd swing from left, next to tall dark tree.

[drg]

drg, just curious, have you been playing with just the contrast slider in LR for your contrasting? I've been using a combination of Recovery, Fill Light, Blacks, Contrast, Highlights, Lights, Darks, and Shadows sliders. If it is a shot that I'm converting to Black & White from color, I also use the color Saturation and Luminance sliders. Some seem like they would be redundant but, been able to get some cool black & white conversions experimenting with different combinations. Actually, the contrast slider is what I have used the least for contrasting in LR. Haven't found any need to go back to Photoshop for contrasting. I do still use Photoshop though for cloning and some spot removal as I think it gives better results than Lightroom's spot removal tool.

On to your pic. I see what looks like some activity just left of center in the background, though hard to make out exactly what it is in this resolution

I have used the contrast slider but also worked with the curves with the appropriate curve shape for a Strong Contrast, I've worked with the default presets (linear, medium, and strong) and when converting from black and white (which winds up not being entirely different than most mixer application) used the grayscale mixer controls.

The Recovery, Fill Light, and Lights, Shadows, Dark, all have some very specific application in image manipulation and though they can be used for an apparent alteration in contrast they don't all exactly work that way. As and example, the Recovery is designed to enhance darker areas far more subtly than shadow or Dark. The end effect of Dark winds up moving you black point and not always where you think!

Lightroom is pretty straight forward, but not as simple as on first appearance.

The Spot tool in Lightroom for my money work much better the Photoshop, but you have to read the manual to understand there are two different tools and they work differently! There is Clone and Heal and you need to use the Spot size in conjunction with them. If you are doing dust removal from digital, you can repeat the exact same dust removal far easier than with CS2 from image to image. Dirty sensors Beware! I don't think I've used anything else for that kind of work since I started using the tools correctly!

That's part of the reason for my original post which I'm addressing separately but simply, I wanted to see with an image I worked with in a particular way how others saw it.

[drg]

jkriminger,

Thanks for the information. Glad to know that what is probably an average set up monitor, though a pretty good piece of hardware from what I know, displays this well enough for you to see what you have.

The brunette will love to hear that, I'll never tell a ladies age without her consent!

I didn't really mean to start a 'what is in this otherwise not great photo" but there's still an element or two . . .



Thanks

[Xia_Ke]

I have used the contrast slider but also worked with the curves with the appropriate curve shape for a Strong Contrast, I've worked with the default presets (linear, medium, and strong) and when converting from black and white (which winds up not being entirely different than most mixer application) used the grayscale mixer controls.

The Recovery, Fill Light, and Lights, Shadows, Dark, all have some very specific application in image manipulation and though they can be used for an apparent alteration in contrast they don't all exactly work that way. As and example, the Recovery is designed to enhance darker areas far more subtly than shadow or Dark. The end effect of Dark winds up moving you black point and not always where you think!

Lightroom is pretty straight forward, but not as simple as on first appearance.

The Spot tool in Lightroom for my money work much better the Photoshop, but you have to read the manual to understand there are two different tools and they work differently! There is Clone and Heal and you need to use the Spot size in conjunction with them. If you are doing dust removal from digital, you can repeat the exact same dust removal far easier than with CS2 from image to image. Dirty sensors Beware! I don't think I've used anything else for that kind of work since I started using the tools correctly!

That's part of the reason for my original post which I'm addressing separately but simply, I wanted to see with an image I worked with in a particular way how others saw it.

Hi drg, I purchased a downloaded version straight from Adobe and got no manual with the download. Maybe I overlooked it from their website??? I have gone through a few of the tutorials on their website but, other than that, just learned from playing. Any recommendations on books/videos/tutorials to check out? I posted some more dealing with Lightroom conversions and adjustment in my Tree At Edge Of Field thread. Any input you may have would be appreciated

Aaron

[drg]

The Adobe Photoshop Lightroom Book: The Complete Guide for Photographers

by Martin Evening, Adobe Press Staff

This is the ADOBE book.

I would recommend this one strongly over the others that I've seen. This book tells you what is really there and why and not just do A-B-C and X-Y-Z will happen.

Too many of the writers want you to do it their way and the true power behind Lightroom is, it doesn't matter in what order you do things. Organization aside of course.

Aaron, if you haven't found Target Adjustments tools, they may be one of you favorites if you continue to use LR for color to B/W conversions. You just pick the area on the image you want to darken or lighten a slide the mouse, cursor, wand or pad up and down to adjust the tonal range selected. VERY Slick. Not unique exactly, but the first wide spread application of such a type of tool and one of the best interfaces yet! There are two(2) of these tools, one with the Tone Panel , and one with HSL/Color/Grayscale Panel.

One more tip to keep in mind with LR, Medium Contrast is the default!

[Xia_Ke]

Thanks drg for the advice. I'll have to pick that book up There was also a tutorial video available from Luminous Landscape http://www.luminous-landscape.com/videos/LR-V1.shtml That I was thinking about buying. Ever had any experience with their products?

[drg]

Thanks drg for the advice. I'll have to pick that book up There was also a tutorial video available from Luminous Landscape http://www.luminous-landscape.com/videos/LR-V1.shtml That I was thinking about buying. Ever had any experience with their products?

L-L has good products and fine free information. Their L-L pages I noticed earlier don't seem to fully reflect all the changes from the beta versions to LR 1.0 as of yet. That's why I mentioned in the other post about the 'two' targeted adjustment tools and the spot tools that most writer are skipping over or not fully mentioning, yet.

[drg]

I said earlier I didn't really mean to turn this into some photo treasure hunt so I'll just post these larger segments of scans. The one is from the original posted scan and the other was adjacent on the roll of EGADS, film.

As you can see there was another of the mentioned shoots going, and this one included dogs for holiday family photos. These two were also processed entirely in ADOBE Lightroom 1.0 from the original TIF files. These were watermarked with LR 1.0 and never saw the inside of Photoshop CS2.

Anyone else who would care to comment on their viewing setup and the detail or lack thereof are still welcome to add their setup, calibration details, or ask questions.

Thanks.