A little lady...

[OldClicker]

What can I change to improve this shot? More/better flower(s)? Better wing blur (shutter speed)? Different BG/framing? Wait for a male? TIA - Terry

[arne saknussen]

You have gotten so many things right that it is hard to criticize. But you are right about the flower. It's a bit drab and limp, at least from the angle viewed. I wonder if cropping it out some would help.
The humming bird is fantastic, however.

[Don Kondra]

Hi Terry,

How are you focusing ? Just setting MF to the area ?

FYI - I have abandoned my MF/remote shutter technique and try for a AF lock now.

Can you describe your technique/lighting and your post processing ?

Are you willing or is it possible to set up a man made background ?

On this image at least I would clone out the dark edges, blur the background and crop a little closer.

Try shooting in burst mode, at 1/1000 you should be able to get an image with wing motion that you like.

The amount of blurring/movement is a personal preference, I at least like to see the wings back and if the angle permits, both wings visible.

A little pp'ing

In Elements 7, a little crop, lightings adjustment. Cloned and blurred the dark areas. In FastStone some brightness, contrast and sharpening.



Cheers, Don

[DGK*CRONE]

I think a better flower would improve the shot. The wing blur isn't bad and maybe a more still shot would look a bit better.

regardless- great catch. btw, a friend just walked up behind me, saw the picture and said "wow, that is beautiful."

[Anbesol]

Great catch clicker! You always motivate me to do more backyard photography, if only we had hummingbirds around here .

I agree that the flower is a little less than stellar, but thats not exactly something in your control, the bird goes where it wants to, I think don's crop improves the flower - but I still favor the originals use of negative space. As far as the wing goes, personally, I think this is sort of in a dead zone, being that - it either needs to be frozen completely, or show more movement. Shooting this at f/11, it could have moved shutter up or down to get either. Though, I'm not sure what shutter speed would keep the rest of the bird in good focus (dont know maybe 1/250-500th this birds body would blur?), so maybe what I'm suggesting is not all that possible.

[n8]

you could probably add some motion blur to the wings, but the body and eyes are spot on, which I'd think is the priority.

[daq7]

Good shot. Well done. I would like to see more texture in the background. Definitely don't crop the dark parts off as done by another commenter..

[annabie]

It looks so beautiful. Which camera did you use?

[OldClicker]

You have gotten so many things right that it is hard to criticize. But you are right about the flower. It's a bit drab and limp, at least from the angle viewed. I wonder if cropping it out some would help.
The humming bird is fantastic, however.

Thank you. I picked up a 'passion flower' last night that should look a little better. I post a so-so shot of a juvy with the new flower on Nature & Wildlife. - Terry

[OldClicker]

Hi Terry,

Thanks, Don, for the detailed response.

How are you focusing ? Just setting MF to the area ?

FYI - I have abandoned my MF/remote shutter technique and try for a AF lock now.

Yes, I put an object (fake butterfly )in the correct position and lock both focus and exposure. With AF, are you using the Wide Focus, hoping it picks the right thing or center focus and hope the HB is centered?

Can you describe your technique/lighting and your post processing ?

Here is a shot of the set up taken today (new flower!). I'm using the two flashes set to High Speed Shutter so that my flash duration is at my shutter speed - 1/800 - 1/1000. As I said above, MF and I also lock the exposure to prevent the need for the pre-flash which they react to before the main flash/shutter actuation. That's why a lot of them are 'laying' on their sides as they are scooting away.

Are you willing or is it possible to set up a man made background ?

Here is the back ground image printed on a sheet of ordinary 8.5x11.

On this image at least I would clone out the dark edges, blur the background and crop a little closer.

As you can see , the dark 'frame' is intentional. I looked at yours and don't know. I will keep looking at BGs though (great use for a 'beercan'!).

Try shooting in burst mode, at 1/1000 you should be able to get an image with wing motion that you like.

The amount of blurring/movement is a personal preference, I at least like to see the wings back and if the angle permits, both wings visible.

I can't burst with the flash and cannot get 1/800 or shorter without it.

A little pp'ing

In Elements 7, a little crop, lightings adjustment. Cloned and blurred the dark areas. In FastStone some brightness, contrast and sharpening.



Cheers, Don

Again, thanks for the detailed help. I love this site!

Terry

[OldClicker]

I think a better flower would improve the shot. The wing blur isn't bad and maybe a more still shot would look a bit better.

regardless- great catch. btw, a friend just walked up behind me, saw the picture and said "wow, that is beautiful."

Thanks. Is your friend interested at being a competition judge??? Terry

[OldClicker]

Great catch clicker! You always motivate me to do more backyard photography, if only we had hummingbirds around here .

I agree that the flower is a little less than stellar, but thats not exactly something in your control, the bird goes where it wants to, I think don's crop improves the flower - but I still favor the originals use of negative space. As far as the wing goes, personally, I think this is sort of in a dead zone, being that - it either needs to be frozen completely, or show more movement. Shooting this at f/11, it could have moved shutter up or down to get either. Though, I'm not sure what shutter speed would keep the rest of the bird in good focus (dont know maybe 1/250-500th this birds body would blur?), so maybe what I'm suggesting is not all that possible.

Thanks. After several years of trying, this is the first year we have had a 'constant supply' of the little hummers. There are at least two pair (and juvies now, I think) so I see something on and average of maybe every 15 minutes.

As you can see in the cheater's set up, I can determine the flower. This was one of our trumpet vine flowers that I had seen them visiting. I have a nicer one today.

The wings are hard because they (evidently) change speeds. One shot at 1/800 gives a nice blur and then on the next they can barely be seen. If I go below 1/800, I start to get the 'tail flick' even if they do hold the body still.

I've come quite a ways and I still have a few more weeks before they head south. I'll keep working on them.

Thanks for the help. – Terry

[OldClicker]

you could probably add some motion blur to the wings, but the body and eyes are spot on, which I'd think is the priority.

Thanks, n8. I'm using MF and pre-focussing, so it's a lot of luck. I think the DoF is less than 2". - Terry

[OldClicker]

Good shot. Well done. I would like to see more texture in the background. Definitely don't crop the dark parts off as done by another commenter..

Thanks, daq. As you can see, it's a printed BG. I often head out looking for better bokey foe a new BG. - Terry

[OldClicker]

Thank you. I shot this one with a Sony A350. - Terry

[Anbesol]

Aaaaah, I see, considering the subject and your flashes, you are positively stuck to 1/800th to 1/1000th. But as for the flower, you are without an excuse :P... Is ambient light exclusively possible here?

[OldClicker]

Aaaaah, I see, considering the subject and your flashes, you are positively stuck to 1/800th to 1/1000th. But as for the flower, you are without an excuse :P... Is ambient light exclusively possible here?

I think the only [acceptable, i.e. not high ISO] way to use ambient at these shutter speeds without the harsh full sun would be full sun with a giant diffuser overhead. - Terry

[Don Kondra]

Hi Terry,

Thanks for the set up shots, helps a lot...

One thing I did try was getting closer with a shorter lens. More DOF but the image had to be cropped.

I was using MF with center point metering. Tried spot metering but didn't like the blown out background even though the hummer colors were better.

I'm shooting from a hide, that is, inside the house

I would MF on the center of the feeder, speed at 1/1000 or more in good light. Remote shutter release and 3 burst mode.

As you did, I quickly found out the DOF is so narrow that I wouldn't even bother shooting anymore if the hummer wasn't at least close to being in the right position.

Without additional lighting the best I can expect from my set up is side or back light. I have a studio strobe set up and when it came time to up my game I decided not to invest in speedlights.

Instead I changed to a longer lens, moved back farther into the house and now only shoot manually. What this means is I almost have to be at the camera when they appear or they will scoot off.

My coffee table is also my desk so if I am working there or watching TV I keep the camera handy.

So whether on the tripod or hand held I am using center point focusing, AF and only shoot if I get a lock.

Less images but better quality. Lighting is still an issue, I have a window of about an hour a day with "good enough" light. I still shoot outside of that window (pun intended) and call it practice for post processing

Now the trick, which will also work for you, is to pick your time to shoot.

The hummers will usually come in for a sip, move back for a sec and then move in for another sip. I wait for them to move back and snap away

I admire your dedication and look forward to seeing more of your efforts.

Cheers, Don

[Greg McCary]

I think it is great, yes the flower could be a little better but still a great capture. Does the flash scare the birds?

[OldClicker]

I think it is great, yes the flower could be a little better but still a great capture. Does the flash scare the birds?

Yes, the flash scares them a little, but they come right back after a few seconds. They are getting more used to it. The main problem is the TTL pre-flash since they react before the shot. - Terry

[Greg McCary]

I think what make it is the saturation, contrast and dof. It looks very much like a film shot.

[Loupey]

A couple thoughts from me, Terry...

1) the HB position is very nice but, yes, I wish the wings were less blurred (not always but in this case) and I wish I could see both of them

2) the backgound that you chose seems too cool for me. I think a warmer background would complement the orange flower better.

3) the lighting is too flat. The strobe from below is too low and too strong. There should be some shadows.

I would suggest repositioning the strobes (especially the high one to come from the left) and readjusting the ratios. As for the wing blur, the strobe duration is short enough to freeze them. You will have to increase their output (and adjust your exposure accordingly). The trade-off in doing this of course is that your background will be underexposed.

Keep working at it. You're doing great!

[OldClicker]

A couple thoughts from me, Terry...

Thanks for the reply!

1) the HB position is very nice but, yes, I wish the wings were less blurred (not always but in this case) and I wish I could see both of them

I think my problem was that I was getting a pre-flash which they react to and speed up their wings for a short dash away. (Another one of those 'do you know your camera?' things.)

2) the backgound that you chose seems too cool for me. I think a warmer background would complement the orange flower better.

I tried this and agree though I certainly saw no 'blue' in this until trying it. So many things to 'see'.

3) the lighting is too flat. The strobe from below is too low and too strong. There should be some shadows.

You mean shadows that look like the light is coming from above where it 'should' be (also giving texture, right?)?

I would suggest repositioning the strobes (especially the high one to come from the left) and readjusting the ratios. As for the wing blur, the strobe duration is short enough to freeze them. You will have to increase their output (and adjust your exposure accordingly). The trade-off in doing this of course is that your background will be underexposed.

First, it is almost entirely lit with the strobes - ambient is near zero at 1/1000, f/11, ISO200 in the shade and/or overcast. I have strobes set for High Speed Shutter (Sony term?) so that they are pulsing for the entire time that the shutter curtains are moving. The strobes are also lighting the BG (8.5x11" piece of paper about 1 ft behind the subject).

I have the one low-left trying to light up the throat (without much luck). The high right is currently about 2x as far as the low left (~1/4 the light). So I should try exactly the opposite? Strong high right, weak low left? Any idea on why I'm not getting the red throat?

Keep working at it. You're doing great!

Thanks. It's the help I find here that keeps up the excitement – Terry

[Loupey]

I suggest "high left, low right". Your goal should be to light the head/throat and not so much the butt/belly. I understand that this is a strobe shot but you should strive for lighting that looks realistic.

I agree that your pre-flash is altering the natural behavior/flight of the HB. You should look into firing the strobes with them in manual mode. You will have to adjust the output of each one and find the right balance manually, but this should keep the pre-flash from firing. Once set, you don't need to adjust them since this is a static shot (of a dynamic subject).

As for the throat, again the pre-flash is altering this. The color of the gorget depends on the angle of view so even the slightest movement of the HB (especially when startled) will change the apparent color of the gorget. Unfortunately, the position of the strobes will also affect the color and you won't know until you actually have the subject in position. So all the best planning on strobe postion will not guarantee a well-rendered gorget.

As for the high speed synch (a Canon term), you'll actually get better strobe-freezing action using the standard synch (~1/250s) because the strobes will fire in their standard short duration mode (much faster than 1/1000s). When you use higher shutter speeds than the standard synch, the flash duration actually increases in duration to stay on during the entire shutter actuation. So by using the higher shutter speed, you are actually negating the stopping effect of the strobe and relying totally on the shutter speed.

Although the slower shutter speed might allow the ambient light to "blur over" the strobe exposure, I think 1/250s, f/11, ISO200 is still more than adequate to overpower ambient shade light to give you the look you are trying to achieve.

[GB1]

Interesting thread (wish I had time to read it all).

I think the shot's good as is, but that it might be better if you cropped in, as you have mostly done in subsequent images here. One issue is that although it is pretty good in this respect, it is not razor-sharp enough to really get in close. You may be able to get away with sharpening it even more though.

This kind of photography looks like a small exercise in patience. But I guess bird watching is like that, too. I run by birders every week and ask myself 'could I do that?' Probably not - I think I like to explore and track down my prey (photo subjects) too much.

G