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  1. #26
    Moderator of Critiques/Hearder of Cats mtbbrian's Avatar
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    Re: How about a little consideration....

    I am gald you have gained so much from this post!
    I look forward to hearing and of course seeing more from you.
    Brian
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    “A great photograph is one that fully expresses what one feels, in the deepest sense, about what is being photographed, and is, thereby, a true manifestation of what one feels about life in its entirety...” - Ansel Adams

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  2. #27
    mod squad gahspidy's Avatar
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    Re: How about a little consideration....

    swmdrayfan,
    I'm glad you started this post rather than just get frustrated and leave. I can tell you as D has stated that this forum is by far the best critique group on the Web, that I know about. When I first joined, I also had little feedback and was always delighted to check on a thread and see that I finally had a response or two.
    It appears that I might not have responded to any of your threads, and I know that you have responded to at least a few of mine, and so I do regret not having been able to recipricate your generosity as I would like to, yet. However, it is not because I do not return the benfits that i recieve on the forum, as you can see if you look at my number of posts in relation to the number of pictures I post for comment. As someone else already mentioned, it usually is trhe case that after you have been around for a time, you will start to see the comments go up. I guess it is because there are quite a number of people that pop on for a while and then leave, that we like to give our time first to those we have already established some give and take with. As for the number of views compared to comments, this is something that gets brought up alot and I always take into consideration is that visitors who are not signed in or not even members, and cannot make comments but are merley browsing and looking, count as views.
    I have learned and benefited from this great forum, and after also getting a bit frustrated in the beginning, and very glad that I stuck it out. This forum has been the single most important tool for me in improving my photography. So, I am glad that you brought this up and spoke your mind rather than leaving and I hope to continue seeing your name on the boards.You will surely benefit as well if you just hang in there with us, as I hope you do. Unfortunately, I will not be able to comment on your pics now as it will appear that I am only doing so because you brought up this thread! Just Kidding, of course.
    So hang in here. . .it may not be apparent, but I for one am glad you are here and have appreciated the comments you have given me. they were quite honest, insightful, and helpful.
    please do not edit and repost my photos


    gary


  3. #28
    News & Rum-or-ator opus's Avatar
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    Re: How about a little consideration....

    As Gary mentioned, I've always pointed out to people that any time you view "who's online" at any given moment, you'll see far more guests and Google Spiders looking at posts, than members. Each time a search engine indexes your post, it counts for a view. As well as guests who may have found your post during a search for "baseball" or "sawed off shotgun" or something completely unrelated to photography. So I never judge by "number of views" how many members are *actually* looking at my photos.

    Here's what I've done over the time I've been here. Most of my shots get very few comments. Usually when I've posted them I've been rather excited about them for some reason, and when I'd get NO comments, it was disappointing to me. I needed validation. I needed feedback. So what I'd end up doing was waiting awhile, (weeks and weeks!), then revisiting my shots. If they still thrilled me, then I knew I was decent and I gave myself the validation. If they seemed much more mundane than I thought, then I figured I knew the reason why nobody commented. The picture was only average.

    I still go through my file of pictures I've posted on a regular basis. As time goes on, some of them still thrill me, I know they're some of my best, even if I got few or no comments on them. And others, I cringe that I ever posted them.

    FYI, I haven't posted anything for critique in months, and I haven't been to the critique boards in as long. I just don't have time to formulate cohesive thoughts about others' work right now.
    Drink Coffee. Do stupid things faster with more energy.


  4. #29
    Senior Member swmdrayfan's Avatar
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    Re: How about a little consideration....

    Thanks Kelly and Gary for adding your sentiments. This is a very good forum. Many outstanding photographers with much to say. I intend to stay and keep posting. I may not always know what I'm talking about, but I'll try to contribute anyhow.

  5. #30
    Senior Member payn817's Avatar
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    Re: How about a little consideration....

    That's my problem, is either I don't know what I am talking about, or feel that my view is so out of the norm, that I'll look stupid. I like things that are very different, and typically have nothing to add to anything that is common.

    I do not get alot of responses myself, and know exactly why. It is simply because everything I post here is either new technique, or sometihng I am not sure about (so either mundane, or just horrible). Like you, I feel it is important to be well rounded, and know many aspects of photography, no matter what my personal type may be.

    Most of these people started shooting many years ago, and us new guys got some learning to do before we can add anything beneficial.

  6. #31
    Love + Music + Photography = Life CLKunst's Avatar
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    Re: How about a little consideration....

    Quote Originally Posted by payn817
    That's my problem, is either I don't know what I am talking about, or feel that my view is so out of the norm, that I'll look stupid. I like things that are very different, and typically have nothing to add to anything that is common.

    I do not get alot of responses myself, and know exactly why. It is simply because everything I post here is either new technique, or sometihng I am not sure about (so either mundane, or just horrible). Like you, I feel it is important to be well rounded, and know many aspects of photography, no matter what my personal type may be.

    Most of these people started shooting many years ago, and us new guys got some learning to do before we can add anything beneficial.
    I DISAGREE Payne! ;)

    EVERYONE has something beneficial to share! It's called unique perspective and it is the Crux of the Biscuit, so to speak. To illustrate I'm encouraging my local photography workshop folks to come out for a digital SLR "Shootout" this Spring. A two part class weekend where we spend the first day shooting it out in a confined area and then spend day two in live critique of everyone's results. This follows the whole point of how unique your perspective is and if you put 100 photographers in a room together no one will come out with exactly the same thing. Someone may say 'I have that exact same shot." but it isn't. It may be from the same place and have the same color or background but it's not the SAME shot. Don't repeat, reconsider, then add your perspective.
    C.L. Kunst - CLicKs Photography
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  7. #32
    Senior Member payn817's Avatar
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    Re: How about a little consideration....

    You are right!

    I guess perhaps it was stated wrong, but if you read the beginning of my reply, you'll see why I feel that way.

    If someone posts a photo for critique, and *I* don't like the DOF (for example), but everyone else thinks it is technically correct, then most would say (or assume) I have no clue. If we critique a photo based on our own tastes and expectations, then you are correct, we can all offer something. However, (and this seems to be the case) if we are attempting to be technically accurate, most of us newer people have nothing more than "great shot, etc." to offer.

    That being said, we have had great discussions on some works here, and they usually are very informative, and give us an idea of how others perceive our work.

  8. #33
    Senior Member readingr's Avatar
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    Re: How about a little consideration....

    Quote Originally Posted by payn817
    or feel that my view is so out of the norm, that I'll look stupid.
    Hmmm! out of the norm? Have you read some of my comments in here? I'm lucky the Institution hasn't; otherwise I'd be straight back into the straight jacket ad rubber room :-)

    Seriously though, as you get older especially having run loads of business workshops you realise that there are no stupid ideas or points of view, you may chose to reject them but they are valid to the person making them so don't hold back; and you never know if its the gem that person is looking for. I won't hold back, if I disagree with a comment you'll know about it, in a polite way I hope.

    Just to answer some of the points raised in this thread, I am at the moment guilty of browsing and only sporadically adding comments to photos that I think my comments would benefit, i.e. I will not just say great, or repeat a comment. The reason is that I am running at 200% of capacity in work (the cusre of the IT business) and get little time to do any photo's justice, and I haven't picked up my camera in weeks or even looked at some of the pictures I last took.

    However, I do try and comment on anyone's photos not just people I have seen and got to know on this site. I will also add my interpretation of a photo to help the photographer to see what my warped brain sees where I think it needs it.

    So please don't be offended if you only hear from me infrequently or you have to wait a long while for me to respond, its purely work getting in the way of the things I enjoy.

    Hopefully at the begining of January 2006 work will ease off to only 130% allocated.

    Roger

    PS. appologies if any of my comments offend anyone as they are sometimes very rushed and not properly read and spell checked before submiting.
    "I hope we will never see the day when photo shops sell little schema grills to clamp onto our viewfinders; and the Golden Rule will never be found etched on our ground glass." from The mind's eye by Henri Cartier-Bresson

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  9. #34
    Senior Member swmdrayfan's Avatar
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    Re: How about a little consideration....

    I think this is working out pretty good. Everyone who's responded has added weight to the thread, and with any good exchange of dialogue, people step back and consider what the others have said. My attitude has changed significantly, and I'm becoming more aware of what I need to do to become a better photographer, as well as really looking at what others are trying to convey thru their photos. I've stopped letting my ego take a bruising if I don't elicit a lot of comments, and that is worth a lot. By the same token, I've become more active in viewing the work of others. I'm feeling more involved on all fronts.

  10. #35
    Captain of the Ship Photo-John's Avatar
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    The Numbers

    I don't know if this will help or not. But I can give you a clearer picture of what the numbers mean. At any given time there might be 50-70 people on these forums. Usually, only about 10% of those people are registered members who can post. The rest are just looking. Plus, not everyone is a participant. Some people just like to look. That's just the way it is. The general rule is, 10% of the people contribute 99% of the what's posted on the forums, reviews, and galleries. What concerns me is that people may be posting photos and not posting critiques. As I said in the guidelines, I expect everyone to give back as much as they recieve on this forum. It also makes me unhappy when people post shallow replies. Every crtitique should be detailed and offer positive, useful, constructive criticism.

    Not happy with the response you're getting? Ask for more resplies and lead by example. Post a critique for someone else's photo and at the end of your post ask for comments on your own and leave a link. Don't be proud. Get out there and hustle. Don't get angry be a leader and show us how it's done.
    Photo-John

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  11. #36
    Senior Member swmdrayfan's Avatar
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    Re: How about a little consideration....

    P-J, after the initial response to this thread, I realized that I needed to do just what you are advocating. I've made it a point to get more active on this board.

  12. #37
    Captain of the Ship Photo-John's Avatar
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    Re: How about a little consideration....

    Quote Originally Posted by Herriot
    I agree about the comments where no responses isn't necessarily a bad thing. I remember w hile back commenting on a stunning portrait by FotoWilelm and asked a similar question as nobody had commented on it and the response I received was "We are not worthy to comment!!!!!" The forum is an area for discussion and general sharing, sometimes I think it is ok for it to be a one way line of communication.
    Everyone is worthy and qualified. It's a "critique" forum. If you post here, you open yourself to comments and criticism from all types. And everyone knows whether they like or don't like something. Everyone's opinion is valid. It's the photographer's job to decide what to use and what not to use.

    Something that a lot of people may not realize is how much the critique process is a two way street. A good critique benefits the critic as much as the photographer. The process of analyzing and articulating what you like and don't like, what works and doesn't work, helps the critic to better understand important elements of photography. I would go so far as to say that being a careful and constructive critic is a necessary part of being a serious photographer. Group criticism is part of all traditional art training. And the best photographers are all their own first and most critical judges. Self-criticism is absolutely necessary if you want to be a better photographer.
    Photo-John

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  13. #38
    Pentax Forum Moderator
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    Talking Re: How about a little consideration....

    Hello All...A while back, in the moderators forum, I brought up a similar subject and was very enlightened by the answers I got. Basically the same ones that have been brought out here. As a new photographer myself, and a musician, I, like kellybean said, need feedback and validation on just about everything I do and when I don't get it, I get very down on myself and my arts.
    There is one thing about critiques that hasn't really been touched upon here that I'd like to put forth. This was the biggest thing that came out of my thread. Try to remember who is criticing you. On a forum this diverse, we have landscape, nature, portrait, architectural, abastract, realist, purist, noobs, etc. etc. etc. photographers, looking at and critiquing your photos. Each one of these will look at your photos a different way and with a different eye for specific details. I for example don't have a lot of experience about photography, so my critiques are real weak and since I don't trust either my eyesight or my monitor, usually just say general things about what I like or don't like, although, I am learning more and "trying" to be more specific. But, I don't have a lot of time to critic, even though I try to look at a lot of pictures, there is no way, that I could critique all of the photos I look at. However, I do try to look at those who have been on for a few days but have no critiques and "try" to say something, regardless of how noob it may be.
    I guess the fact that we are all artists and want everyone to be as awe inspired by our works as we are is to be expected. And as artists, we are very sensitive, and our feelings can get hurt very easily at the slightest things. I guess that is our lot in life.
    In closing, PR is a very large family, and the most positive and understanding group of people I've ever had the pleasure to be inspired by. Although some of the "guidelines" appear to be abused, I think everyone here tries their best to do what they can. So I, personally, try to be a little less hurt when something is not raved on or critiqued the way I'd like to be and understand that I have a long way to go before most of my works are "truly" awe-inspiring.
    Just my 2 cents!!!
    Ken
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