Foggy Morning:Iwo Jima Memorial

[CLKunst]

Comments and critiques are welcome, suggestions cheerfully explored.

[Ronnoco]

You are too tight in your framing, cutting off the top of the flag and the bottom of the statue although perhaps that is the bottom of the statue in the dark area. In this situation you need to expose for the statue and not the sky. The statue is underexposed and losing detail.

Ronnoco

[Jaedon]

I like this image and I think with a little bit of post you can gain some of the detail back.

Can't really do anything about the flag pole at the top but the lost detail is recoverable.

I played around with it a bit in PS and got some promising results in just a few minutes. If you want to see what I did let me know and I will post it with your permission of course.

Jay

[GB1]

CL - Good attempt here. It has a lot of good things. I like the fog and the angle you shot it at, as I have never seen this particular angle. It is a tad dark around the statue shadow areas, but increasing the exposure would also have changed the fog density to ? It seems a bit cut off at the top and to a lesser extent at the bottom.

But since it is what it is, I took a stab at an edit. Since I think you're OK with it, here's what I came up with :8: Different, anyway.
GB

[livin4lax09]

i dunno, i like the edit, but I think the chopping of the stars takes a lot away from it. If it just had that tip of the flag in the edit, it would look much better. and clone out that branch in the bottom right.

[Jaedon]

Well here's my take on it.. I forgot to clone out the bushes even though I had planned on it and I didn't notice till after I had already uploaded it.. but hey.. it's the thought that counts

Dodged a bit around the bottom to lighten it up .. then burned a bit around the top to even out the exposure.. then cut out the statue, flag included, and adjusted the exposure and saturation of that layer alone. Here's my results:

[MB1]

Too dark.

It is a great statue but very hard to photograph in the daytime. I've had my best luck shooting at twilight when the flag is at half mast.

[GB1]

Jaedon, I like your edit overall but the (metal) men seem very light on the top and dark on the bottom... not sure how that came about. Overall though it is the best one, IMO.

Btw Ive shot this monument so many times, and this is one of the best pics I've seen yet.
GB

[CLKunst]

Thank you all for your input. I had hoped to get some practice shooting in fog this day. We don't get signifcant amounts of it around here so when in doubt for testing a shooting situation go find a national monument for subject. I wanted to get into the city and do some work there too but the fog had mostly burned off by the time I finished at the IJM. I have attached a more cliche angle from the same shoot. I am interested to see if that draws similar responses.

Now for some specifics:

MB1 - Too dark? Huh. Well that's a head scratcher. I was afraid of it looking washed out. MB I assume you are referring to the specific darkness on the faces and not the overall tone of the image?

Jaedon - Thank you for your input . I don't see the need for all the dodging however, as I wasn't really going for total detail and am okay with the deep shadows on the faces as long as you can see detail in the face of the man looking up. I'm not a fan of the foggy splotches from the dodging tool at all, if it comes to dodging I'd rather just go back and re-shoot it. Please make sure if you uploaded this image that it does not appear in your personal gallery. Thanks.

GB - Thanks for your input and for coming back to this one. I think the reason this angle is less photographed is that during normal weather conditions there is a large brick apartment building in the immediate background along with other numerous distractions. I figured the fog would be good cover and it was! It is a tight shot but I only just clipped the top of the flag pole off and the base of the statue seemed incongruous with the "rocky terrain" that's part of this statue's scene. Plus my back was up against a tree to fit it all in.

Ronnocco - Thanks for looking and commenting. I did expose for the sky because that's what I wanted the practice with. I felt that exposing for the statue might lead to a blow out with my atmosphere. This was all a big experiment in shooting in haze for mood.

[MB1]

[QUOTE=CLKunst]......
MB1 - Too dark? Huh. Well that's a head scratcher. I was afraid of it looking washed out. MB I assume you are referring to the specific darkness on the faces and not the overall tone of the image? ........QUOTE]

No, I was out that morning and thought that everything was washed out by the fog/mist. I like your shooting angle but I would go for a really light image overall with lots of detail in the figures.

BTW yes, I much prefer your "cliche" shot but I would be interested to see that one a lot lighter too.

[Jaedon]

Jaedon - Thank you for your input . I don't see the need for all the dodging however, as I wasn't really going for total detail and am okay with the deep shadows on the faces as long as you can see detail in the face of the man looking up. I'm not a fan of the foggy splotches from the dodging tool at all, if it comes to dodging I'd rather just go back and re-shoot it. Please make sure if you uploaded this image that it does not appear in your personal gallery. Thanks.

No worries it's hosted off site and isn't in my gallery at all. And you're welcome.

[CLKunst]

Thanks MB and Jaedon!

MB here is a lighter version of both files. Improvement or too much? I definitely like it lighter. Thanks for the input!

[trog100]

i think u got it about right as it is.. the foggy under exposed figures are what makes it.. its has a "battle field" look about it..

trog

[Chunk]

I like the initial presentation. The unconventional angle of a well known subject is one strength and the dark moodiness is another.
The idea that all subjects need to be 'perfectly exposed' and and full of detail results in many beautiful scenes being missed.
You've done well here, in seeing (and feeling) something others have missed.

[CLKunst]

Thank you trog ~ I got that "Battle field" feeling myself a little as I was shooting these.

Thank you Chunk ~ it's nice to know that there is still room for interpretation out there.

[readingr]

CL

I like the original here. As someone said its an unusual view of the memorial for a UK person but I do wish the flag was totally included.

To me the original conveys the tenebrosity of war and what men go through.

On my monitor the detail is just about right in the shadows perhaps a tad dark but it works for me. Personally I think this would be terrific in B&W.

Roger

[MB1]

...MB here is a lighter version of both files. Improvement or too much? I definitely like it lighter. Thanks for the input!

Now I am not straining to see details that I know are there and it still is clearly a foggy day. The white patches on the helmets are interesting too.

BTW I posted some pix of the Marine Corps Memorial a couple of times.....

Iwo Jima Memorial
Iwo Jima Memorial again.

It is always interesting to see how photographers can go to the same place and get such different images.

[gahspidy]

CL, I also like your original post, as it lends itself to mood and hardships of war sort of thing. I agree about it being too tightly cropped, but I think it works like this anyway. Your cliche shot is very good,technically abetter shot, but the unusual perspective of the original image brings it up as Chunk pointed out.

btw, if we are going to edit someones photo and repost it, I hope permission was asked first, or they have made it known on their signature

[CLKunst]

Thank you for the additional comments and critiques!

Roger ~ Here are two re-done versions one a complete black and white conversion and one that's a 75% desat. Please let me know what you think of the conversion job.

MB ~ I really like your sunrise images from the memorial. Great colors! Talk about your major lens compression too! You must have been standing on the hill behind the parking lot to get the shot with the WM and the capitol in the background at such an angle! That was totally a new one on me. I like your alternate views too.

Gary ~ Thanks very much for commenting on this one. I always appreciate your input.

[swmdrayfan]

Cindy,
Considering that you were experimenting shooting in fog, and considering the other factors, that wasn't a bad shot. I've seen the Memorial once in my life, and would love to go back and see it again. It's a very, very impressive and moving subject. Are you familiar with the story of how that flag raising shot was taken? If you ever get time, read "Flags Of Our Fathers" by James Bradley. The recent movie is based on it. You'll come away with a new appreciation for the statue and the men who were it's subjects.
John

[readingr]

Cindy,

Sorry for the delay in responding but work is hectic at the moment got 3 documents to complete before christmas.

I like the B&W more than the desat but the desat conveys mist more so it depends on the effect you are trying to achieve.

For me a combination of the sky of the desat and the punch of the men in the B&W would work better but that is my opinion and it really depends on the effect you want. You can't please everyone all the time as this site has taught us all.

I downloaded the pic to see what I could do with it and the picture I liked was after masking the men and the sky and adding different effects to both ending up with the men as in the B&W and the sky a little lighter than the desat.

However if your trying to get the foggy effect then the desat or the original works for me. I also played with the the men in colour and the sky in the lighter desat which also works well.

So many things you can do.

Hope that helps rather than confuses you.

Roger

[Greg McCary]

CL, I agree with Brent. Other than the top of the flag and top of the tree on the bottom right, I like it. I like the angle and the one soldier seemingly looking at the camera. Also the B&W version takes to much away from the colors of the flag. I like your second version better, the soldiers have more detail to them. It would help if the flag wasn't so new looking but you can't control that....
Greg

[Greg McCary]

Sorry I must have posted twice...

[trog100]

i first a saw pleasing image i liked.. i now see a million and one variations on a theme..

i am now totally confused and have no real idea of what i like. .. there really does have to be a lesson to be learned here somewhere..

leave well enough alone perhaps..??

or "critique" for the sake of critique dosnt achieve much.. in fact it can be of negative value...??

trog

[CLKunst]

John ~ Thanks for the reading list suggestion I'm adding it to my list now. I am glad it works for you.

Roger ~ Thanks for coming back on this again. I agree the more I play with this one the more possibilities I see. So it really all does boil down to what effect you want to achieve. I think somewhere between the b/w and the desaturated version is where I want to be. I'll play with some masks as you suggested as well. No confusion, I'm here to experiment.

Greg ~ Thanks for responding and commenting. As I was just mentioning to Roger I think there's a desaturated middle ground that will deliver a faded "Glory" as well as the pop of the details.

Trog ~ Thank you for keeping up with this thread. I appreciate how you feel about the confusion one can have at the variations and possibilities available. For this particular image I only took this shot. I have several others of this place from more "iconic" angles; many of them almost identical except for settings changes (since it was an experiment kind of a morning for me). But for this particular image I only did the one and then moved on. I knew it would draw the "It's too tight" comment and probably the "It's to dark comment" but obviously at the time I felt it was finished after one. So going back into these variations gives me an opportunity to compare and contrast my original ideas (being in the moment and physically in front of the statue, experiencing the conditions) against the suggestions of people who will only be able to view the image on face value. (Which is, of course, the way it is for all viewer-ship once an image leaves your hands to be freely associated.) Following a path of suggestions can sometimes lead to a dead end, frustrations and confusion but it can also lead to solutions and re-thinking for problems with composition and effect.