Coke Sign Series

[Greg McCary]

A local artist, Robert Redden, famous around my area for his pencil drawings, was hired by the Coke Company to paint Coke signs on stores and buildings many years ago. Most of these signs are still around. I guess no one wants to paint over them. I am thinking of doing a series of these signs. What do you think of my first one, and which one works best?
Greg

[zrfraser]

I like the concept, I have been working on a seriee for a few months now on natural patterns. I think you need to get closer though, and maybe do it at dusk. There a re a lot of distractions like the building on the left with bars on the windows. I think it should be cropped out completly as it doesn't add to the shot. The bottom left corner of the sign is over exposed because of the light, which is why I think dusk or dawn would make for good light. I think there is another sign in Cartersville downtown off of Tennessee street. I think it would look good in black and white from a nostalgia point of view.

Z

[Ronnoco]

The lighting, unfortunately does not work well in either. A sign series must have the lettering well-lit, tack sharp and dominating the scene. There must also be a "look" in the background that illustrates a certain time period, and for that to happen, the background must be well-lit and carefully considered for its role in the scene.

Unlike other photos, in this type of work you are trying to ensure BOTH that the background contributes to the centre of interest, but also that the centre of interest contributes to the background. It has some similarities to advertising photography and it is definitely not easy, and requires some research into the area to avoid frustration and poor shots.

Ronnoco

[Greg McCary]

I replaced the color version with the cropped version Z. I am aiming for that pencil style that Redden was famous for in the B&W version. I hope this is better....

[zrfraser]

I think the back ground could work, but I think you are usuing the wrong one. The bricks would make your background, as I'm sure these bricks are fairly old and weathered, and I'm pretty sure I know where this is. I think you should approach this as a texture shot. The painting is fading which will add some of its own texture and combine that with the bricks and you should have a winner. I was wrong about the black and white, I think the red bricks and white lettering will add to the iconc image of Coca-Cola. You still have to get closer, and make the sign the center of interest.

Z

[Seb]

A local artist, Robert Redden, famous around my area for his pencil drawings, was hired by the Coke Company to paint Coke signs on stores and buildings many years ago. Most of these signs are still around. I guess no one wants to paint over them. I am thinking of doing a series of these signs. What do you think of my first one, and which one works best?
Greg

Greg, I'd go for the first picture. I don't think that the other smaller building in your second shot is relevant. In fact, I'd take the first picture and I would slightly crop the left side so the building touch the edge of the frame. And yes, the lower left corner of the sign is a little hot and might benefit from a moderate burn.
That being said I really like what I see here. There is a lot of atmostphere thanks to the street lights and the strong contrast. The position of the bike and the fire hydrant adds visual interest too. While I understand Zrfraser comment I do not quite agree with him. The thing is that your photograph is much more than a sign shot for me. You have captured a nice mood here so I see the sign as a graphic touch into something more complex. (But then, that's a matter of personal perception and it ultimately depend of your final goal with this image).

Seb

[gahspidy]

I like the first one here as well. . .the top one. The tighter crop works and the inclusion of the fire hydrant and bike is good. I would straighten the building with the frame. Did you do any photoshop work near the sign and towrds the rear of the building? There is an odd blur at the sign and along the bricks from the sign to the back, sort of like the use of the clone tool or something. Other than that oddity, I think this could work. Good idea for a series. Remember, go for more than just "documenting" the signs on the walls, but rather get creative with lighting, perspectives, surroundings and mood. Good work

[pez31]

Greg,

I like the overall feel of the image and agree that the bike and lighting help create mood. My only problem is the amount of digital noise I see. If it was more of a pattern, like grain on high speed film, it wouldn’t be as prevalent. That being said I don’t think it ruins the image, just wish it wasn’t so splotchy. I look forward to seeing more of this project.

Regards,

Phil

[Frog]

Well, I'm just an amateur but I fail to find anything to critique especially on the first one.
I don't think it is a picture of a sign.
The 'hot' light on part of the coke sign only grabs my eye momentarily and then it pulls back to take in the whole.
I've been studying my small town which is mostly old brick buildings and hope i can do this well to capture the mood of the place.

[GB1]

Greg - It has potential. The biggest problem I see is too low contrast and a slight tilt that I personally would correct for. Also, the Coca-Cola painting is too washed out. I like the bike. The building's shape is very interesting too. Do you have any more shots of this showing more of the street, esp the left side?

I hope you dont mind but I did a quick edit to add contrast and rotate it 1 degree CCW.

-GB

[Greg McCary]

Z,
Thanks for the ideas. I could easily go back and reshoot this during the day and probably will. I tried a close up of this at night and it just wasn't working with the light and meterbase mounted on the sign. I am familar with the Cartersville area, I worked there 14 years. If I am ever that way again I will look for the Coke sign on Tennesse st. There is also a nice one at the end of the Cotton block but I will have to get permission from someone to get on the roof. Keep your eyes out for me for more signs.
Phil,
Thanks for your comments too. I really didn't mind the grain when I started playing around with it in PS it started taking that pencil drawing feel and I liked it, so the grain was a plus.

Ron,
Thanks to you as well. I am for sure going to have to put on my thinking cap. I think that I might go with a different concept for each sign. Acomplishing what you say would be next to impossible with the location of some of these signs In this one I was going for that pencil, drawing feel that Mr. Redden was famous for. He drew pictures of old buildings, barns and bridges. I felt even though the sign is overexposed, it being brighter than the rest of the building would make it stand out more in the picture.

Seb,
Thanks for your comments too. I will try to go in Photoshop and work on the sign some but I have limited experiance with Dodge and Burn, but this will be a good starting point. The sign definatly needs some work. The bike just happened to be there and I ask the young man who owned it to leave it there while I took pictures. I feel the same way. It added a little something to the picture.
Gary,
Thanks to you as well. Now that I know that I might be on to something I will hone my skills in PS some and work on the sign blur. I think the blur just to the right of the C once was the word Enjoy. I know it is overexposed but I started bracketing two stops lower than the meter called for and this was the least exposed of the bunch, lesson learned. There was a lamp post just to the right of the picture causing the heat on the sign. Maybe I should invent a quick snap diffuser for a lamp post and make some money. I would also like to know what kind of B&W film you shoot. Your B&W pictures are stunning. Almost small areas of color in them.
Frog,
I am gald you like it. I can't wait to see some pictures of your town. And Thanks for your comments.
Thanks GB1,
I don't mind the corrections at all. I will try and work on this in PS and get more detail out of it.

[Ronnoco]

Greg - It has potential. The biggest problem I see is too low contrast and a slight tilt that I personally would correct for. Also, the Coca-Cola painting is too washed out. I like the bike. The building's shape is very interesting too. Do you have any more shots of this showing more of the street, esp the left side?

I hope you dont mind but I did a quick edit to add contrast and rotate it 1 degree CCW.

-GB

The problem with your edit, GB is that you lose too much blown out detail around the bottom and front side of the sign. Selectively adding contrast and doing Photoshop clean up around the sign would work better.

Ronnoco

[Ronnoco]

[QUOTE=Greg McCary]Z,
Ron,
I felt even though the sign is overexposed, it being brighter than the rest of the building would make it stand out more in the picture.[QUOTE]

Overexposure never works because it means loss of detail and that never works. The approach you should be after is to keep the sign brighter than the rest of the building without losing the detail resulting from overexposure. That is done by selectively working with parts of the photo in Photoshop, such as (if you want) darkening the building without negatively affecting the exposure of the sign. Selectively darkening the area immediately around the letters would also make them stand out and perhaps look sharper as well.

Ron

[GB1]

Ronnoco - yeah, it was just a quick edit... I guess one could do a masking here and make it look a somewhat better.

But in agreement with Phil's comment, there's just so much digital noise in the original posting... we're really working with a bad image. If a better original (unedited) version exists then I can see one putting the time into it. Otherwise, Greg might as well reshoot.

GB

[Ronnoco]

Ronnoco - yeah, it was just a quick edit... I guess one could do a masking here and make it look a somewhat better.

But in agreement with Phil's comment, there's just so much digital noise in the original posting... we're really working with a bad image. If a better original (unedited) version exists then I can see one putting the time into it. Otherwise, Greg might as well reshoot.

GB

Good point. The bricks also create a moiré pattern to further complicate editing. Reshooting is indeed the only option that makes sense.

Ronnoco

[Greg McCary]

Ron, What created the noise, if I shoot film? Can I not go back and have the negative rescanned?
Greg

[Ronnoco]

Ron, What created the noise, if I shoot film? Can I not go back and have the negative rescanned?
Greg

If you were using film, then underexposure or the wrong film with a high ISO could cause grain or noise. Tests show that Kodak Gold at 3,000 lines resolution is perhaps the best print film for sharpness. Low ISO slide film is also good but often needs a stop over for a lot of shots. Print film can deal better with overexposure than underexposure. Slide film is very precise in terms of exposure needs.

The negative can be rescanned and that could be the source of your problem depending on your settings and how old your scanner is. Editing and re-saving also contributes to noise and so does your approach and settings to compress your image for uploading to this forum.

Ron

[gahspidy]

Greg,what film was this shot with, and how was it scanned? Was it scanned and developed at the same place? If it was scanned and placed on a disc, is this the original scan? If not, I would like to see the scan as it was without any Photo shop editing of any kind, if you didn't mind. I shoot with color film and always convert my photos into B&W through Photoshop. If you would like to see how I go about it, I have a section on my website that describes all my techniques for different tasks and edits.
Something looks very odd about that Coke sign and it could be the scan was poor, at least at that part of the image.

[livin4lax09]

none of these work for me because they look too much like paintings. there's no real detail in the photo itself

[Greg McCary]

Gary,
Here is the untouched original. It was scanned an placed on cd at a department store lab. I think the noise came from my lack of PS experiance, I have since reworked and reposted a better, I hope, version. I shot this with Kodak 400. Most often I use Fuji but this was a left over roll from my daughters birthday. Bought in a hurry where Fuji was unavalibale. Not that I have anything against the Kodak film. I have a scanner that I use when I am not as lazy. Lab scans are usually 1818x1228 pixels @ 96 pixels per inch. Ron stated that resizing and saving in PS creates noise. This may be where it comes from, also my conversion technique which I am working on. I will check your website on the conversion technique. Thanks for all of your help. Since Mr. Redden was a pencil artist I really kind of liked the noise, I just don't think that it's everyones cup of tea.
Greg

[gahspidy]

Greg, thanks for sharing the original scan with us. I had once or twice had a lab scan a roll for me (when I had sold my Minlolta dimage and was awaiting the Nikon Coolscan V arrival) and place it on disc and had a problem with at least one or two of their scans.The scans are also relatively low resolution as well.
I am not really seeing any film noise in your image, rather some softness in some areas either due to a poor scan or your settings during the snap of the picture. I have found that Kodak UC 400 (professional grade print film) has very fine grain ,for a 400 iso, and scans very well. Also, Fuji Xtra 400 very good as well, and much cheaper.
I feel you should get back to this scene, with your tripod and even 100 ISO film, at a time of day when there is still some light in the sky. Dusk, or very early morning when the sky is just being illuminated by a set or rising sun. The problem here is the sign looks like it is being lit up brightly by a light and the only way to really shoot this scene without that blowing out would be the time of day when the rest of the scene is somewhat illuminated by the days light. This would allow the rest of the scene to expose more quickly and reduce the chance of the sign blowing out.
The angle and framing here is fine, although I prefer the tighter crop of the other picture.
Give it another go, while there is still some light in the sky, and see what happens. Looking forward to this series of your.