Chocolate Cafe

Taken outside and across the street from an ice cream parlor called Chocolate Cafe. I thought this would work better in b & w than in color. Comments and critiques, suggestions and advice greatfully appreciated.
John
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b1...ateCafebw2.jpg

Obviously not seen the colour version of this, but it seems to work well in B&W to me - good choice I feel!

I find all of the small 'scenes' within this image interesting - The parents with their child to the right, the woman drinking to the left.. Even the guy staring out of the window right back at the photographer. My eyes seem to naturally flow across the image, picking out detail.

The only thing that I feel detracts from this are the unfortunate reflections that block the ability to see further into the cafe. It would've been nice to see what's going on inside too! Although, understandably, reflections are quite hard to avoid.

I genuinely do enjoy this image, as you feel like you're being allowed an insight into the various subjects' lives. Each time I take another look, I find another interesting detail.. To me, that makes a great shot - reflections or no :).

J

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Originally Posted by JFischer

Obviously not seen the colour version of this, but it seems to work well in B&W to me - good choice I feel!

I find all of the small 'scenes' within this image interesting - The parents with their child to the right, the woman drinking to the left.. Even the guy staring out of the window right back at the photographer. My eyes seem to naturally flow across the image, picking out detail.

The only thing that I feel detracts from this are the unfortunate reflections that block the ability to see further into the cafe. It would've been nice to see what's going on inside too! Although, understandably, reflections are quite hard to avoid.

I genuinely do enjoy this image, as you feel like you're being allowed an insight into the various subjects' lives. Each time I take another look, I find another interesting detail.. To me, that makes a great shot - reflections or no :).

J

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Actually J, the woman on the left is enjoying an ice cream cone. This shot is one of about 6 I took, and I cropped it this way because I felt it had more of an impact than if I'd posted the full frame, which included the store sign. I was playing with the levels and contrast to get what I thought would be a good balance. I appreciate your input. I'm glad you like it, and I hope everyone else who views it likes it as well. I don't do much b & w, but I'm trying to expand my horizons a bit, and attempting more.
John

John, I too like the little glimpses into a moment of the lives of the people in the scene. I think the B&W definitely works with this one. I don't find the reflection disturbing. IMO it adds to the photo. Sometimes it looks a bit artificial to me when you can see clearly right into a window of a building.

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Actually J, the woman on the left is enjoying an ice cream cone.

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Whoops, I thought it was a cardboard / styrofoam cup she was sipping from! I should get my sight checked :). I think it was a good idea to crop it this way. Any more, and it might detract from the detail in the image by drawing the eye away. Contrast / levels look spot on to me!

J

I do like the B&W but feel that the image would be better if you had shot slightly more to the left and cut the two people on the right out of the shot completly. I think the lady with the ice cream cone and the picture of the girl would have been enough to carry the picture.
Greg

Nice shot with lots of interesting things going on. Almost too much going on though. Seems to be lacking a good focal point and my eyes want to drift all over. I agree with Greg's crop suggestion or even just focus on the lady alone. Nice job on the b&w conversion.

Aaron

There is alot going on, I like it like that.As far as a pro critique, I am still learning, can only imagine this in several different forms.I'm not sure what might be better. This image holds your interest, I see more, more.I think that makes it work.

John,

There are a couple of thing I like about this especially the effect of the bright sunlight on the bottom of the picture where the legs hit the sunlight making it look as if the legs are coming out of the picture.

I would have moved a fraction to get the 'r' of bar against a dark background.

I would have excluded the people on the right and cropped it at the frame after the picture and given the lady with the ice cream a little more space behind here if possible.

You were right to go with B&W as colour would have made it even busier.

Roger

Thanks everyone....I'll look into different crops and try to repost.
I appreciate all the input.
John

I'm intrigued by the photos in the window, is it a coffee shop mini gallery?
Perhaps you can get your photo in there.
Then there's a follow-up of course with your photo in the window :)

If you reshoot, try a polarising filter.
It may not help much, but it will reduce reflection if the sun is in the right direction.

I wouldn't want to lose all the reflections, for example I know it's on State St.
I think I see someone with a camera too :D

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Originally Posted by SmartWombat

I'm intrigued by the photos in the window, is it a coffee shop mini gallery?
Perhaps you can get your photo in there.
Then there's a follow-up of course with your photo in the window :)

If you reshoot, try a polarising filter.
It may not help much, but it will reduce reflection if the sun is in the right direction.

I wouldn't want to lose all the reflections, for example I know it's on State St.
I think I see someone with a camera too :D

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Thanks a lot, Paul. I might see how it looks with a quality print, and go from there.
John

I very much like the composition. Finding one detail such as the pictures in the window leads me to keep looking for more details and I haven't run out yet. I would not crop the people on the right and actually might expand it to the point that all the Dessert sign shows.

I love this kind of street photography. It reminds me of classic photos and the street paintings of the French impressionists.

Thanks Don and Frog.

I guess my original comments were not posted for some reason. I may have messed something up so I will try to duplicate as closely as I can, my original comments. I would like to thank you for posting this image. I have gained even more respect for this site in reading the comments. I had already considered it one of the better sites for photography on the web. I would advise you take into consideration all the comments made in this thread as they all are aiming you towards better photos. If I were you I would focus on Xie Ke's response, Don Schaeffer and SmartWombat 's ideas. Stalk this cafe. Learn the light at every time of day and register the type of customer they get. You already got a good photograph from this location. Getting a great one will require a strong central figure or two contrasting figures. Lighting and exposure will determine if your once in a million composition will pay off. Will you be prepared if it does? Luck has absolutely nothing to do with photography.

Thanks for your response reverb. If I wasn't 50 miles from this place, I'd be there a lot, not only for the photo ops:D . At the next opportunity, I'll go back for sure.
John

John - I'd try a crop of just the woman on the left over to the right side of the "Bar" text, or a little beyond. As is, seems tense between her and the others on the right.
GB

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Originally Posted by GB1

John - I'd try a crop of just the woman on the left over to the right side of the "Bar" text, or a little beyond. As is, seems tense between her and the others on the right.
GB

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Good suggestion. I'll try several different looks and repost.
John

Here are three different versions:
#1 Just the woman with the ice cream cone
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b1...Barlevelsa.jpg
#2
Black and white copy of the original shot with more contrast
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b1...oforiginal.jpg
#3
Same as above but with less contrast
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b1...ertedtobww.jpg

I like where you're going with that first crop. Just realized the expression on the face of the guy inside. PRICELESS!...LOL I'd crop about 25% off the top of that to bring im and the woman outside more into play. Great place though. Definitely worth a revisit or 2. So much going on there to capture. Hope to see more ;)

Aaron

Oh and my vote is for the extra contrast :)

I was thinking the same crop, just a slight bit different though...
Not sure if the light at the bottom is a plus or a minus. I tried cropping it out and decided to leave it in.
G

I feel the square crop is the strongest of these extra images. Perhaps less square and get the top to not come as close to the "Chocolate & Coffee Bar" sign.

When I saw this the first time, I was ambivalent about the light along the bottom of the image. Its inclusion I feel depends upon how the photograh is framed. Like this, I would delete it, but if you frame so that there is a contrasted border it could be included.

The lady alone in her hat staring across the frame is a good photograph, but the photo need the edge of the window frame to keep the eye from just wandering off with her stare. The pillar inside the shop helps and if all the frame at the right is eliminated it can serve the same purpose. I'd also leave more of the photo at the right in the 'squarer' type of crop to root the figure more in the composition.

Photographs of this type are very individual in how they are presented and become many times as much about the personal taste of the photographer and the elements they wish to include/exclude. The medium of presentation (printed, projected, mounted, the web, etc) also dictates the tonality and contrast of the final product.

Good work! Consider b/w or monochrome when presented with these types of scenes, it is often stunning what can happen!

I like GB1's edit the best. With all of the relections it has a Tuna type street photography feel to it. I think the crop was a big improvement. Maybe you shuold be shopping for a rangefinder.
Greg

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Originally Posted by drg

I feel the square crop is the strongest of these extra images. Perhaps less square and get the top to not come as close to the "Chocolate & Coffee Bar" sign.

When I saw this the first time, I was ambivalent about the light along the bottom of the image. Its inclusion I feel depends upon how the photograh is framed. Like this, I would delete it, but if you frame so that there is a contrasted border it could be included.

The lady alone in her hat staring across the frame is a good photograph, but the photo need the edge of the window frame to keep the eye from just wandering off with her stare. The pillar inside the shop helps and if all the frame at the right is eliminated it can serve the same purpose. I'd also leave more of the photo at the right in the 'squarer' type of crop to root the figure more in the composition.

Photographs of this type are very individual in how they are presented and become many times as much about the personal taste of the photographer and the elements they wish to include/exclude. The medium of presentation (printed, projected, mounted, the web, etc) also dictates the tonality and contrast of the final product.

Good work! Consider b/w or monochrome when presented with these types of scenes, it is often stunning what can happen!

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Thanks dr g. There were several ways to go with it, and I'm glad everyone's put in their .02. It's going to help the next time I come across an opportunity like this.
John