Beautiful Becky

[Alison]

I have been having a go at that 3rds rule I've heard so much about. How did I do?
Thank you.

[Ronnoco]

Very well, but there is also a rule of lighting, that states only ONE light should be reflected in the eye of a model.

The other should and can quickly be edited out using Photoshop or an other program.

Ronnoco

[AC_Photo]

Bear in mind that I don't know what I'm talking about, so I'm putting this forward to see what other say. It seems to me that her eyes are the central part of this picture. They draw me in. Because of this, I'd bring her farther into the frame so that the 1/3 lines cross right between her eyes. That hat looks preety light, so maybe that wouldn't work?
Seems like she's just a little to high up and left to me.

[Alison]

People's opinions vary so differently lol.
I brought her up into the frame because someone else told me to lol.

Also, I cloned out one of the catchlights and someone else told me 2 catchlights was good lol.
I'm just not getting it.

As for her hat I agree it is too hot and wanted to see if anyone else agreed. I can rectify that in seconds so that is fine.

If I put the original in here would someone be kind enough to show me the perfect crop. I just don't seem to be having much luck with this rule of 3rds. or even better, draw some lines on it that illustrate the rule of 3rds.

Would it also be better if she was flipped around so that her eyes are in the top right?

Thanks, everyone, for your help.

[mjs1973]

Hi Alison,

I'm no expert on composition, but I took the liberty to draw some lines on your photo to deminstrate the rule of thirds. Then I made a crop of your image placing Becky's eyes at the cross section as was suggested by AC Photo. One with the grid lines on it to see the placement, and one without just to get an unobstructed view of the photo. I hope this helps.

[Alison]

That's fantastic Michael! Thank you.
Yeah I thought that's what the grid should look like.
How did you get those lines so equally spaced?

[mjs1973]

To draw the grid, I just used the rulers in Photoshop. When I opened your image in PS, is showed up as being just under 9" wide, so I drew the first verticle line about 3" from the left edge of the image, and then the second line about 3" from the frist line. They weren't exact, so I just eyed them up. I did the same for the horisontal lines. You image was about 6" tall so I drew my lines about 2" apart.

I try to picture these lines in my viewfinder using the AF points as guides. You can get focusing screens with these lines on them. I'm not sure if you can change them in your camera tho.

[CLKunst]

I've heard of a company that will engrave them into your eyepiece glass or 8x10 crop marks for framing in camera.

[Alison]

Ok. So what if I want an even closer crop?

[AC_Photo]

I was playing with the closer crop myself. I like how much she filled the frame in your first pic, and following my suggestion didn't look as good as I expected. I did two crops, one in 5x7 and one in 8x10 that look better I think, but you'll see that while she still is kept to the left, the pics don't truly follow the rule. Still like these better I think. It seemed wrong to me if I cropped out a lot of her arm

[drg]

Alison,

The crop done in the portrait format in Photography as Art forum under the topice "Why is centered not good?" is probably the best presentation of this photo I've seen. That photo is perhaps more 'traditional' in the orientation for this kind of image. With a single subject and a studio background when you make a photo in the landscape style it works better to have more in the photo. That image has a nice fall through her face and hand and outfit. We see what she is doing with her hand (holding the hat string) and it feels more realized.

This presentation leaves an area of the photo 'space' empty. There is an argument that the viewer is cheated or short changed by the open space. This is not negative space as it doesn't balance or enhance the girls features or the portrait. My eye wants to get sucked over into the empty background.

The rule of thirds is too take advantage of the psychological phenomena of the way the brain and eye works moving across a page from upper left to lower right. The viewpoint naturally transects the '1/3' points as it moves so if elements are put there we want to viewer to see it helps to 'guide' the eye.

On the other hand, if we don't put Anything at the points we make the eye explore or wander.

By the way, I like the technique of 'cutting' the subject with the frame. Too many rule followers will have one believe that is improper. Use it, it can work wonders.

[Alison]

This wasn't a planned studio shot. I was only testing the light in my room. Which was, incidentally, window light only. No flash, no reflector.

Becky jumped on the bed with a hat on and starting clowning around. I was ecstatic when I looked at the pictures on my computer and found that Becky's turned out to be the best!

So who's crop is better from a professional photographers point of view? Mine? Michael's or AC's?

[mjs1973]

So who's crop is better from a professional photographers point of view? Mine? Michael's or AC's?

Mine is the best of course. Ok, seriously, this is up to the viewer. When I made my crop, I just kept the same layout as the original image. I feel that my crop has too much empty space to the right of Becky, but that's just they way it turned out keeping the height and width in the same ratio. For this image, I don't feel the empty space adds anything to the photo and I like AC's bottom version much better.

By changing the size ratio of the image, and changing the layout of the image from landscape to portrait, you can really see some dramatic differences. This is one of the great things about digital, you have many options to experiment with after the fact. For me tho, the challenge is gettting it right in camera the first time.

Another thing to think about when doing portraits is frame and album sizes. There aren't many standard sized frames out there for photos with a 2:3 ratio other than 4x6. For this reason, many photogs make sure they have extra space around their subject so they can crop the image to fit a standard sized frame like an 8x10.

[Asylum Steve]

Very well, but there is also a rule of lighting, that states only ONE light should be reflected in the eye of a model. The other should and can quickly be edited out using Photoshop or an other program.

Well, not only is that one of the silliest "rules" I've ever heard, but it's a bit irresponsible trying to pass it off as one when someone is seeking help trying to expand their creativity.

Sorry, but somewhere along the line you got some bad information...

Trust me, there are NO rules governing catchlights in your subject's eyes. It is completely normal to have a catchlight reflecting each and every light source used in a studio shot (including reflectors).

Multiple catchlights more often than not enhance the eyes of your subjects, adding that extra bit of sparkle over a single one (see examples below).

Not only that, but looking at magazine and book images with a magnifying glass is a good way to better see the multiple catchlights and figure out how various studio shots were lit.

That's a good way to learn lighting...

[readingr]

Alison,

I would give the person buying the choice as all of them have pro's and con's and its totally subjective as to which one would be chosen.

Personally I would go for AC's second because I'm not sure I could look at your first crop for that long because of the fuzziness is a tad to much for me. If that was toned down then I would probably pick yours. Not that hung up about the rule of thirds - some photos need it and others don't.

By the way she's a pretty girl. Wish my daughter would model!

Roger

[Alison]

So it seems, after my day of suffering a headache trying to grasp this concept of thirds, there is no hard and fast rule and you should follow your heart in how you want your piece to look.
Thanks for the lesson on thirds though. I may need to use it in the future.

[mjs1973]

You know what they say: rules are made to be broken. The rule of thirds works great in the right image, but in others it doesn't help at all, and even makes things worse. The trick is knowing when to follow the "rules" and when to break them.

[Alison]

Ok here is my finished crop!

I have now mastered the rule of 3rds. Might not use them all the time but I feel happier in my abilities knowing what I am doing where the rule of 3rds is concerned.
A big thank you to everyone who helped me.

Ali

[AC_Photo]

I like that one best of all!