Aalia

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  • 05-30-2011, 10:41 AM
    GB1
    1 Attachment(s)
    Aalia
    From a recent model shoot. This image needs a little more PP punch, as my strategy here was to use a fill flash against a bright background, rather than have her face the sun and catch strong lighting. The flash has flattened it out a bit though. Comments welcome.

    gb
  • 05-30-2011, 10:43 AM
    GB1
    1 Attachment(s)
    Re: Aalia
    Another version --
  • 05-30-2011, 10:46 AM
    gahspidy
    Re: Aalia
    I don't think it needs much of anything really. Its a fine shot, GB. Lighting looks good and I like her expression and contact. The only thing I can see is the whites of her eyes look a bit too white compared to what the light looks like hitting her face. I would tone it down to something more natural...its a fine shot.

    EDIT...you just added the crop. The crop looks good except maybe a bit too much chopped off the top. There appears to be some weird coloring going on with the lips...
  • 05-30-2011, 10:55 AM
    GB1
    Re: Aalia
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by gahspidy View Post
    I don't think it needs much of anything really. Its a fine shot, GB. Lighting looks good and I like her expression and contact. The only thing I can see is the whites of her eyes look a bit too white compared to what the light looks like hitting her face. I would tone it down to something more natural...its a fine shot.

    EDIT...you just added the crop. The crop looks good except maybe a bit too much chopped off the top. There appears to be some weird coloring going on with the lips...

    Thanks Gary. I really love the composition and the model's look (she's experienced). What I'm unsure of is the bright background on the upper left and perhaps the flatness of the image. The reason for the strong crop was to try to remove the bright area up there. I may mask it all up and use a different background. Sounds like a post processing learning experience in the making

    I may be partially at fault for the whites of her eyes being so strong; I did a little post on this one and removed some vessels that I was afraid may spoil the image. It made the whole thing white in the process.

    This gal looks like that Afghan woman from National Geographic ..
  • 05-31-2011, 06:15 PM
    wilsan
    Re: Aalia
    GB1 I found this a very interesting photo. If you allow me I would like to try some retouching techniques and see if you like it?
  • 05-31-2011, 06:18 PM
    llewpics
    Re: Aalia
    To me, this one is all about expression ...looking at it makes me forget about all that technical stuff ...photography is really about relaying an emotion, capturing a moment ...and this one has it!
  • 06-01-2011, 07:34 AM
    GB1
    Re: Aalia
    Thanks Wilsan and llew. I love the expression too, but I also feel that, photographically, it needs more 'pop.' I have to play with it some more and see what I can do. This gal is an experienced model and I get the feeling that she knows exactly what expressions to use.

    Wilsan, Welcome btw. You're more than welcome to edit and repost it here. I mentioned in my signature that I'm Ok with that. If you can, please tell what steps (at least the general steps) you took so that I can learn. thanks!

    GB
  • 06-01-2011, 04:21 PM
    wilsan
    Re: Aalia
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by GB1 View Post
    Thanks Wilsan and llew. I love the expression too, but I also feel that, photographically, it needs more 'pop.' I have to play with it some more and see what I can do. This gal is an experienced model and I get the feeling that she knows exactly what expressions to use.

    Wilsan, Welcome btw. You're more than welcome to edit and repost it here. I mentioned in my signature that I'm Ok with that. If you can, please tell what steps (at least the general steps) you took so that I can learn. thanks!

    GB

    GB1 thanks I read the signature but I always like to ask just for courtesy next time I will take it by granted. I will post the PSD in that way everybody can open it and see the layers. Hope that you like it :):thumbsup:.
  • 06-01-2011, 05:00 PM
    wilsan
    Re: Aalia
    Well guys here there it is I hope that you like it. I'm learning new techniques of photo editing and this was a great opportunity to put them on practice.

    Here is the PSD link the file is renamed as gb1.psd.rar. after download to your computer just renamed and remove the .rar
    link click here
    http://www.wilsanphoto.com/forum/DSC..._800afinal.jpg
  • 06-01-2011, 05:16 PM
    armando_m
    Re: Aalia
    it is up to GB to decide about his photo,
    but... anyway my comments are :
    I like the skin color in your edit,
    the eyes are proper for a scifi movie, I mean way over done for a realistic portrait
  • 06-02-2011, 07:39 AM
    GB1
    Re: Aalia
    Wilsan, I will open it and review the processes at home tonight. My initial response is that the colors are more vibrant and that the contrast has increased. I like her skin color a bit more now. I agree with Armando however that the eyes appear way over-sharpened/over-processed. It's a dilemma because I feel that her eyes (which aren't normally like this she said; she's apparently wearing contacts) are a strong point, but somehow they seem too dark/too much in shadow. I wonder if I can get her to pose for a in-close portrait sometime.

    Thanks for taking a whack at it, & feel free to do so in the future.

    G
  • 06-02-2011, 08:47 AM
    Asmarlak
    Re: Aalia
    I like the model and her expression, very good, I can tell from her name that she's from Middle Eastern background. I also like the technique used in shooting.
    I think this is a perfect example of how one thing could give the photographer hard time after the shoot when trying to fix what otherwise should have been taken care of before the shoot and save time and effort and that is her makeup. Her makeup is very sloppy and causing irregularities in her skin tone and dark areas around the eye, nose, between her nose and mouth, and the corner of her mouth. Also her lipstick is not smooth with a hallow above her upper lip. Her eye makeup is smeared and could have been better especially her eye lashes that needed brushing for separation. Before shooting a glamorous close up portrait, the makeup becomes the most important thing to be checked throughly. I think she should be advised to take a class in professional makeup application if she applies her own makeup - Is that an "Old Navy" hood?????.
  • 06-02-2011, 02:07 PM
    GB1
    Re: Aalia
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Asmarlak View Post
    I like the model and her expression, very good, I can tell from her name that she's from Middle Eastern background. I also like the technique used in shooting.
    I think this is a perfect example of how one thing could give the photographer hard time after the shoot when trying to fix what otherwise should have been taken care of before the shoot and save time and effort and that is her makeup. Her makeup is very sloppy and causing irregularities in her skin tone and dark areas around the eye, nose, between her nose and mouth, and the corner of her mouth. Also her lipstick is not smooth with a hallow above her upper lip. Her eye makeup is smeared and could have been better especially her eye lashes that needed brushing for separation. Before shooting a glamorous close up portrait, the makeup becomes the most important thing to be checked throughly. I think she should be advised to take a class in professional makeup application if she applies her own makeup - Is that an "Old Navy" hood?????.

    Asmarlak - Thanks for your comments. She's half Middle Eastern/half Italian but grew up in France. So, this is an International model!

    I didn't think her make-up was half bad, but if one wants to really really critique it I suppose it isn't perfect. The up-close portraiture probably wasn't what she expected as it was a 'beach' shoot, although it was cool outside and she came in high fashion clothing. I do see the lipstick mark above the lips. I don't see the eye makeup at all, but I probably couldn't tell anyway. You think the eye lashes are too close..? I see them very separated from each other, esp on the eye closest to the camera. Hmm.

    As far as the hood; it wasn't silk or anything, but looking at the other images I think it was felt. If this was a super high-fashion shoot then I would agree that it should be higher-quality stuff (which she should have). She's actually learning photography and showed up more to take photos than to pose.

    The other shots show a more carefully applied lipstick; I wonder if she fixed that between shots.

    G
  • 06-03-2011, 07:12 AM
    draymorton
    Re: Aalia
    Reminds me of the famous NG shot.

    I actually don't think it needs anything. Love it. I will say that I prefer the tighter crop, though.

    You could do certain things to it, but I don't know that there would be any benefit. Very nice work.
  • 06-03-2011, 09:29 AM
    Asmarlak
    Re: Aalia
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by GB1 View Post
    I didn't think her make-up was half bad, but if one wants to really really critique it I suppose it isn't perfect. The up-close portraiture probably wasn't what she expected as it was a 'beach' shoot, ...

    Everything can be justifiable and depends on what the purpose of the shoot was. I was talking from a professional stand point weather for you or for her. At least I often think shoots that involve models are usually costly and thus involve a level of professionalism which means "publishing". I didn't think it served either side. "Professionally" her makeup is pretty bad, what helped is that she is young and natural beauty, I don't think she needs a lot of makeup anyway. I worked as a makeup artist 30 years ago.
    Why was it shot at the beach when there is no trace of it?, you could have accomplished better result indoor.

    I really hate it when someone take outstanding pictures and see mediocre one (generally speaking) and say "wow, this is wonderful the way it is", so much dishonesty around here buddy.
    When this happen to me I'd consider it disrespect because they're looking down on me and thinking "this what your level is, wonderful for you but not for me because I'm much better than that".
  • 06-03-2011, 09:30 AM
    Anbesol
    Re: Aalia
    Love the composition, color, texture and eyes. But, the expression bothers me slightly, she looks like shes wincing. Though, other people here complimented her expression, maybe its just me? It is subtle.
  • 06-03-2011, 09:56 AM
    Liz
    Re: Aalia
    This is a fine image IMO......However...I do agree about the make up around the mouth. When viewing the first image as a whole, it looked fine. However, when I looked at the second image closer up, on my monitor the area between the lips and nose looks dark in spots, especially one small area right below her nose.

    Other than this nitpik, it looks good.

    Liz
  • 06-03-2011, 10:13 AM
    Asmarlak
    Re: Aalia
    Publishing photos is all about "nitpiking". Photos are looked at with magnifying glass to "nitpik". Nitpiking is known to be the most important aspect of professional photography especially when it comes to close up glamour female portraits. Published photos should be "flawless" and super ready for "Nitpicking". That is my opinion.
  • 06-03-2011, 10:19 AM
    Anbesol
    Re: Aalia
    I didn't say because I thought that wilsans edit was yours, but like in wilsans edit, I think you should brighten up her teeth. Also, I prefer the crop of the first, but I'd like to see a color BG, not BW as it is. I also think her right eye could be sharper.

    I also still don't see anything "wrong" with her makeup.

    Wait, was this image an attempt to mimick Steve McCurries middle eastern woman image? Link

    I agree with Asmarlak about the use and value of nitpicking, but not on his spelling of the word "whether" :cool: (lol). However, I think the word "flawless" is hyperbole. I don't know that there is such a thing as "flawless". If something is seen as "flawless" it probably just means you aren't yet experienced enough to make it better. At least, I like to think that there is never a finishing point of an image. As the expression goes, its never DONE, only DUE.
  • 06-03-2011, 10:39 AM
    armando_m
    Re: Aalia
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Anbesol View Post
    Love the composition, color, texture and eyes. But, the expression bothers me slightly, she looks like shes wincing. Though, other people here complimented her expression, maybe its just me? It is subtle.

    Quite a discussion going on

    On a class I took for portraits of models the teacher would tell the models to wince a bit and partly open the mouth, just separate the lips, sometimes this makes them look hot, sometimes completely dumb
  • 06-03-2011, 12:27 PM
    Asmarlak
    Re: Aalia
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Anbesol View Post
    However, I think the word "flawless" is hyperbole. I don't know that there is such a thing as "flawless". If something is seen as "flawless" it probably just means you aren't yet experienced enough to make it better. At least, I like to think that there is never a finishing point of an image. As the expression goes, its never DONE, only DUE.

    This is not me talking, it is "Cosmopolitan" and "Vogue" that I have right in front of me talking. I think you guys who are into model shoots should look at them regularly to see what I'm talking about. We can talk about this for days but seeing is believing. Yes, there is a good chance that your mailman and neighbors would think you're "gay" when they see those magazines delivered to your doorstep - but hey, the upside part they'll like you even more.
    They even made "Queen Latifa" a "Cover Girl" lol.
  • 06-03-2011, 11:20 PM
    GB1
    Re: Aalia
    Another good discussion. I really enjoy reading people's viewpoints on this. Some comments on your comments:

    - It's art so we will never all totally agree, and there's no reference point to what's right
    - I tend to agree that portrait models should look pretty much perfect, if so possible. I therefore think nit picking is OK, but you can still get a dang good shot even w/ minor issues
    - Having the mouth slightly open seems to be a popular modeling pose. I don't know about the wince thing .. that sounds counter-intuitive, but who knows?
    - The teeth could be whiter. That could be a fairly easy post fix
    - There was no MUA available. Most of these model shoots are 'come fully prepared.' A good MUA is golden! But it requires the models to be there well before the shooting begins, hence complicates things

    Charlie, I definitely see the resemblance to that famous NG shot. :D The eyes have it. Maybe the model knew what she was doing when she dressed for the shoot.

    Asmarlak, I agree that portraiture is best off in the studio. But you catch what you can sometimes; I saw this model's eyes and incredible look and had to get a portrait shot of her.

    Thanks too, Drew, Armando and Liz.

    G
  • 06-03-2011, 11:55 PM
    Anbesol
    Re: Aalia
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Asmarlak View Post
    This is not me talking, it is "Cosmopolitan" and "Vogue" that I have right in front of me talking. I think you guys who are into model shoots should look at them regularly to see what I'm talking about. We can talk about this for days but seeing is believing. Yes, there is a good chance that your mailman and neighbors would think you're "gay" when they see those magazines delivered to your doorstep - but hey, the upside part they'll like you even more.
    They even made "Queen Latifa" a "Cover Girl" lol.

    I am actually not all that into shooting models, I'm more about shooting ordinary folks.

    In any event, it looks like you are rebutting what I said, but I don't see where there is any disagreement. All I meant to say is that the word "flaw" is an impossible concept applied to such an abstract medium, I just prefer to use terminology that reflects the shades of gray that is the perception of art.

    GB - yup! Flip canvas horizontal for the full effect.
  • 06-04-2011, 08:50 AM
    wilsan
    Re: Aalia
    IMHO in portraiture we need to take in consideration the intended end result and what is going to be the final purpose of the photo before make a criticism about it. Make up, hair, clothing, expression, pose lighting, location are options that can be control even before the shooting, if we as a photographers perform a pre scout.

    For example I can do a shooting for a Magazine and not involve make up at all.
    Like if I shoot a female for NG is not going to be the same if I shoot a female for Maxim.
    What is the difference? Both are female, but the intended public is different.

    What I'm trying to said is that all the opinions are valid we just need to take in consideration what the photographer is looking for end result.

    However they are stuff in a portrait that usually should be following the same guidance. Like Illumination, Contrast, Skin Tone, DOF, Exposure and Sharpness. At least I always try to base my comments based on that criteria.
  • 06-04-2011, 10:29 AM
    Asmarlak
    Re: Aalia
    I think we are all right. I was just trying to apply different standards when judging professional photography from what I use judging fun photography, and comparing it to what is out there in the market and I think that is fair thing to do otherwise there won't be a logical purpose of being her.