Petrol Prices here in Australia at present

[Peter_AUS]

Just thought as an off-topic discussion, to help keep in perspective with other parts of the world, that the price of Petrol has reached $5.30US a gallon ($1.55AU a Litre)here on the East Coast of Australia.

Would be interested in knowing what it has reached in other areas of the world as a comparison.

Do you believe that World Prices are fair and comparable with others around the world, or are we being taken to the cleaners by those that control the Oil Prices ?

Would be interested to know.

[jar_e]

Here in Canada it's around 97 cents per litre...

[another view]

My car is a Diesel, so that's what I pay attention to. I think standard grade 87 octane gasoline is a little less than Diesel lately. Here near (not in) Chicago, I'm paying about $2.30-ish for a gallon. When I bought the car two years ago, it was always $1.60, give or take .10 - very constant because truckers can just wait another 100 miles or so to fill up if one area is very expensive. So those of us driving the 50+ mpg Diesel cars benefited from it.

Here in the US, we've had it so cheap for so long that few people worry about it. That's a waste, so many people driving much bigger cars than they need. I was in England in '92 and prices there were so much higher than I was used to - maybe three times the money (this was in Brighton, much less than London). I have to admit that I haven't followed the reasoning behind the price surge that closely, but there are a lot of recent (past couple years, anyway) events that apparently contribute to that. How close are we to running out of a supply of oil? Have all other petroleum based products like plastics gone up that much too? Natural gas here has gone up at a faster rate than gasoline or Diesel.

I can see how prices in England would be so much higher because it's imported. I was in Houston, Texas a year ago and it was a little less than here at the time - home to lots of oil production and refining. But not that much different.

[opus]

There's even a rather large difference within areas of each state... here in my state the difference between the lowest and highest (voluntarily reported) is nearly .40¢ per gallon.

[almo]

It's about $2.35 us here in NE FLA. And with 2 trucks this family is going broke!

I would guess that fairness would really have little to do with it, because it is unfair to everybody. If it did then we would not have to spend a 1/3 of our pay checks just to get back and forth to work everyday. Though some countires are feeling it more than others. I have some very, very strong feelings on this subject that I will not go into, from opec to drilling anwar and the eastern coastline.

All I can say is I am going to get a good motorcycle and a raincoat, cuz it's to damn expensive to drive a car or truck anymore.

[walterick]

Interesting posts.

It's about $2.30 near DC, about $2.5 inside DC I think, and about $2.15 in the rural portions of Virginia.

From what I understand, the US government sudsidizes fuel prices here so we are arguably paying the difference from the rest of the world with our taxes. I am buying into oil and gas stocks at this time as they are doing well overall. It's a smart way to make your money back from the gas pump

Sorry to see it's happened for these reasons, but on a personal level I am glad to see that the new hybrid-engined cars are getting immensly popular here in the US. In metropolitan Washington DC I see several on the road everyday, growing in numbers. Down here in conservative Richmond they are rare.

Be interested to see what others have to say. Peter, is there an alternative-fuel vehicle explosion in Oz as well?

Rick

[Peter_AUS]

Nope there isn't because of there initial cost. Although there are 3 manufacturers now with them. I spent $2,500 on LPG conversion on my 12 year old Tarago, 11 years ago when LPG was cheap per litre, around $0.20, but now it is $0.60 but more in the 40-50 cent range majority of the time. Taxi's run fulltime on LPG, I have dual fuel LPG/Petrol, need to use both. There are some Buses that are running on Natural Gas here as well.

I can't understand why there isn't more input into alternative cars and getting the price cheaper overall to make them more interesting to customers. I can understand about development costs, but looking at the long term I think is better than looking short sighted as well.

We need to get the cars cleaner and the air cleaner or the world is just going to go more and more down hill over the next 10-30 years or so.

Even though Oil has dropped by $8US a gallon on the world market, Petrol is still very high here again, around $5US a gallon which just isn't right.

[walterick]

Peter, this all sounds very interesting to me however I am going to require some translation on this: "I spent $2,500 on LPG conversion on my 12 year old Tarago, 11 years ago when LPG was cheap per litre,"

Sorry I don't knwo what LPG or a Tarago are! I presume the latter is a car.

The only reason I can determine that there is little more being done to develop alternative fuel vehicles is that the Oil Empire is against it. Like it or not, there are special interest groups pulling weight on government officials in this country (and I can only imagine elsewhere) and of course Oil has more money lining its pockets than Hydrogen does! It's come to this, the crucial point of oil prices, availability, wars, politics and public interest to get the ball rolling here. And even AT THAT the American car makers have dropped the ball! Oh, the irony! In the 1970's during the gas crisis here the American car makers were still pumping out big, boxey V8 cars from Detroit. Well, low and behold the Japanese came in with their Hondas and blew the American companys away, the American public ate it up and to this day the Americans are still trying to play catch-up to the level of quality and technology that the Japanese have spanked us with for 30 years now. Again! Honda and Toyota BOTH came out with hybrid gas/electric cars around the year 2000 or so. Spanked us again! American companies wer caught with their pants down, began scambling to catch up and only this year are we seeing the first American cars (and trucks!) being released with hybrid motors. It's embarrasing!

So I think the technology has been there for quite sometime. It's obvioulsy simply a matter of desire. The politicians had no desire to anger the oil companies by throwing money in alternative fuels, but now that the Japanese have spanked us and consumer demand for this technology is up - in other words, now that there's MONEY to be made - the American car companies are taking action. "We haven't had the technology until now." I don't buy that for one second. It's about desire.

I don't know if Ausland is subject to the same buerocracy as we are here god bless you if you are!

Rick

[jar_e]

Rick,

I believe LPG is 'litre per gallon', the metric equivalent of MPG (miles per gallon). Wait, that doesn't make any sense. Ah, well I'll post it anyways for the humouros nature,

Jared

[jar_e]

The real answer of LPG should be found somewhere on this site.

[Peter_AUS]

LPG stands for Liquid Petroleum Gas, think of your Bar-B-Q Gas bottle and make it a 60 litre (13 gallon) tank. $2,500Aus is around $1,900US in todays $$'s but back then it was more likely around $1,500US as the Aus $ is worth more now than it was then so really it should have cost me about $1,950Aus then. 1 Gallon is equivalent to 4.5 litres.

Basically it costs me roughly about $16Aus ($12US) to travel about 240Km (110 miles) city traffic as apposed to $53US to travel 159 miles on unleaded Petrol. Roughly.

A Tarago, is made by Toyota, is a People Mover, Sleek Looking. I know they have them in America I have seen them in the movies and on TV Shows.

The Van that was being driven in the Movie Carpool with Tom Arnold in it, you know the one where he kidnapps the father and children, drives through a mall and chased by Rhea Pearlman on a Cop cart, and ends at a sideshow carnival.

Pretty much what a Chrysler Voyager was probably modelled on.

[DownByFive]

I've been paying about $2.50 USD/gallon for Super Unleaded (92 octane)...Yikes. As a poor college student, it's putting a pretty big dent in my wallet. Why did I have to buy a car that takes Super???

[another view]

LPG stands for Liquid Petroleum Gas

AKA Propane over here. There are some companies working on this in the US too, but it's more for industrial use (fork lifts, been common for a long time). I think that's what most of the mail delivery trucks run on too.

There's an infrastructure problem with something like this in the States for big time use - there aren't many places that sell it, and nothing all night (like gas stations and truck stops).

Rick, it's too bad that high fuel prices are the only reason that hybrids are taking off right now, but that's what it takes sometimes. The only thing is, at highway speeds you're not really saving anything. If you drive a lot of hwy miles then you're going 60-70mph (or more ) and the very small gasoline engine just has to work that much harder.

I'm taking a break from working on my Diesel right now, getting ready for a road trip to Denver in a couple of weeks. I can get fuel 24 hours a day but only need it about every 6-700 miles, and won't have another oil change for 10,000 miles. Plus no ignition system to worry about (VW's biggest problem) or Hybrid batteries to replace some day. If I keep it around 70, I'll stay at 50mpg, too. Diesel exhaust does have a higher soot content than anything else, but 2006's Ultra Low Sulphur Diesel fuel mandate will help that. But it does have less CO2 than an equivalent gasoline engine which helps the greenhouse effect. Cold-weather starting isn't an issue anymore, either. These cars aren't for everyone, but I'm not going back to a gasoline car anytime soon! ;)

[SmartWombat]

LPG = Liquid Propane Gas
if that's not a contradiction

[Peter_AUS]

I think LPG as far as I knew is Liquid Petroleum Gas.

[Peter_AUS]

They are approving the use blending of fuels here in Australia not diesal fuel, just normal ULP with Ethonol 5-10% here in Australia, has already started and I think it might have been being used unknowingly here for years.

Ethonol has dramatic effects on cars running and ommissions (at least that is the story they are giving), but also has drastic effects on car parts maily rubber seals etc.

The bad thing to this is, the Government has not made it compulsory to advertise that the petrol actually is blended fuel, so the poor average driver won't know until something goes wrong with the car.

I have Dual Fuel system in my Tarago (Toyota People Mover), with ULP/LPG and also have a small addative that is used when on LPG which mists to help coat the valves in the head like Petrol does to ensure they don't burn out due to lack of the necessary addative.

This is a very Hot subject down here, but unfortunately for us, the Opposition lost control of the Senate and now the Government is pushing everything it wants through Parliament without proper discussion or debate. Currently Industrial Reforms have been tabled and they look likely to pass through to be enacted as Law within weeks, sad days for employees. They also introduced new Counter Terrorists laws as well, which they have given 24 hrs to read and debate then it will pass into Law by Xmas here. Another hot issue as well.

I don't think Australia is ever going to be the same with these new laws passed as the whole structure of Industrial Revolution that we know and have worked under for the past 100 years is going out the door, and with it I think will be all the checks and balances that the Trade Union Movement have been able to enforce.

It would appear from the retorheic that we are heading down the paths of the USA, where people will have to go on to enforceable contracts that take away their rights and privlages without recourse.

A very very sad time in the History of Australia.

[JSPhoto]

Pleasant surprise on the news tonight.... one gas station not far from me has dropped it's price to $1.97!!!!!! Well under anyone else around and under the national average of $2.45. In the past two weeks gas has dropped from $2.85 to $2.33 around here, then suddenly this one station drops below $2 WOW!

JS

[mdmc]

They are approving the use blending of fuels here in Australia not.

http://www.matr.net/article-13313.html
I don't know anything about this exept that the fact that Willie Nelsons buss is powered by alternative fuel was in the paper sometime this past summer.
I hope the link is pertinant to this post.
Mark.

[JSPhoto]

Here in Indiana they recently (August or September) announced the countries first "Bio Town" where they are building a biofuel plant and all diesel fuel will be biofuel made from soybeans and pig waist. They are hoping that this will do two things, one get rid of the pig waste that is polluting rivers and streams throughout the state and give farmers a new market for their soybeans.
In addition Indiana is opening new gas stations using the new alternative fuel E85, 85% ethanol, 15% gas. At present many stations are carrying E15 now which is 15% ethanol and 85% gas.

Next year, the IRL (Indy Racing League) has plans to run all races on E85 ethanol, including the Indy 500.

They already run a car sponsored by the Ethanol industry which could be booming here before too long. Attached is a shot of the Ethanol car from this past years Indy 500 practice.

JS

[Peter_AUS]

Bio Fuels are fine if the engine is built to specs of it's use, but where engines are say like my wife's car a Dawoo which is 8 years old and mine which is 12 years old now and petrol/lpg dual fuel. I have to be concerned that the seals etc will deteriorate with the use of Ethanol in the Fuel. Checking the Dawoo and Toyota sites both recommend NOT TO USE "Ethonal Blended Fuel" in them. But if the oil companies don't have to declare that the fuels are blended then how does the honest consumer even know, until the damage is done, which can be very expensive.

I did a head gasket in my Tarago, it cost $2,500 to repair (high yes I know but if you know Tarago's, the engine is under the floor of the driver and passenger seat). Having Dual Fuel probably made it even a bit hard to work on with the extra conversion parts that were add to the car.

Also finding Honest Mechanics is very very hard as well, not like it was 20 years ago when you knew you could trust the dealers to do the work and local mechanics as well. These days it is pretty pot luck to find one. I'm still looking.

[JSPhoto]

Peter,

The 15% ethanol shouldn't hurt any engine, it won't run it hotter at that amount, 20% maybe. The manufacturers like Chrusler have been making alternative fuel vehicles here since the late 90's...try to buy one used though!
As for the biofuel deisel fuel, that they do not need to do much if anything to run it.

JS

[another view]

LPG = Liquid Propane Gas
if that's not a contradiction

Over here it's usually just called LP, but the only things I know that run off of it are industrial equipment like fork lifts.

JS, good to hear about plans for making BioD. Use something that's toxic to dispose of for something useful - that's something that especially us Americans need to think more about.

I hear E85 (ethanol) is much less efficient in MPG than regular petroleum based gasoline. I guess the guideline is that E85 needs to be more than 30% less expensive than gas to make financial sense. It's getting close, but the benefits are more than just in the numbers. More useage of E85 will mean more plants, stations that sell it, then (hopefully) eventually a lower cost.

[Peter_AUS]

Yes Anotherview and that is exactly what we thought about LPG over here, used to be 18 cents a litre now, slowly creeping up and up and up, it is $0.590 a litre, as our government decided to link the costs to what Oil Prices are. Anthing to keep the money rolling in.

[jar_e]

Penny,

Puts things into proportion eh?! I read somewhere that in most places beer is cheaper than milk now!

[Peter_AUS]

I wish it did run on water then I could just get it out of the tap and use that which is a site cheaper than bottled water. Penny, you can virtually double those prices for us here, with exchange and markup. The thing about Milk, the farmers get no where near that for their milk, it is just the stores that make the huge profits out of it.

You know Restraunts work the price out that it costs them to make a dish and then add 65% markup. Remember that next time you are eating out.

I don't anymore as I have lost all income now and can no longer afford to do just about anything. Any spare cash the wife has the girls get that for them which is a rarerity now. I know you aren't working either as well, so you feel my pain.

I'm lucky to be still on the Internet as it is.