And McCain chooses...

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  • 09-04-2008, 05:21 AM
    Frog
    Re: And McCain chooses...
    Actually I hate that abortion is used as a form of birth control and think Obama's approach of attempting to empathize while he personally finds abortion repugnant a wiser approach than just saying NO to abortion in any circumstance.
    His goal is to reduce the need for such a high rate. Even McCain said his daughter would have to choose.
    And, yes, Javier, I do know what loving my neighbor means. Doesn't stop me from getting really irritated with them though.
  • 09-04-2008, 06:05 AM
    big baldo
    Re: And McCain chooses...
    Just because someone is "pro-choice" doesn't make them FOR abortion. I wouldn't want anyone in my life to have an abortion, but I am VERY pro-choice. Again, It isn't anyones business what goes on in my wifes uterus but hers!!
    On the other side, I think that the name needs to be changed from "pro-life" to "pro-birth", because they really dont seem to care after the baby is born.
    Also, how can someone be "pro-life" and all for the death penalty???
  • 09-04-2008, 06:32 AM
    Frog
    Re: And McCain chooses...
    I did listen to Palin's speech last night and heard nothing but rhetoric and attacks on Obama's character. I think a lot of community organizers are going to feel insulted.
  • 09-04-2008, 06:34 AM
    Didache
    Re: And McCain chooses...
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by big baldo
    Just because someone is "pro-choice" doesn't make them FOR abortion

    That is an excellent point which is often lost on the pro-lifers.

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by big baldo
    Also, how can someone be "pro-life" and all for the death penalty???

    That one has always baffled me too!

    Mike
  • 09-04-2008, 09:01 AM
    jgredline
    Re: And McCain chooses...
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Didache
    Javier .. the reason I have not replied is because that would be about "me" and not about the thread. Having said that, I have no objection to explaining it outside the forum. If you care to pursue this, PM me your email and I will respond there provided any correspondence is done in an atmosphere of mutual respect.

    Mike

    PM sent :)
  • 09-04-2008, 09:12 AM
    jgredline
    Re: And McCain chooses...
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Dylan8i
    so i guess this whole election is about abortion? thats one minor (won't affect that many poepl) point out of many many many other topics. all ive heard J talk about in support of republicans is abortion.

    While Abortion is the ''main'' thing to me, it is NOT the only thing...
    Obama wants to raise my Taxes as well as many others.
    Obama wants to turn us into a socialist government...
    Obama will not protect us, he will cut and run at the first sight of problem if he can't talk his way out of it...he is weak on national security...
    These are just three of many reasons.

    Quote:

    and just something ive been thinking about: how can pro life people be so pro gun? oh its ok to shoot an animal ( also a creation of god) but yet its so bad to kill a few cells that can't survive on their own? (and no im not anti gun).
    I can only speak for myself...
    I have no problem with hunting or fishing so long as you eat what you shoot or catch. I do not believe in hunting ot shooting animals to hang a trophy on the wall...

    As soon as the egg and sperm meet, that is a human life...Had your mothers egg and fathers sperm NEVER met, you nor I would be here...Science can now measure brain waves at 2 days old...

    Quote:

    or how they can so wrecklessly knowlingly destroy the environment in which we where placed by god.
    Hmmm, can you elaborate a little more on this?
    Since you brought God into this, what is your position on religion?
    While I believe Global warming is a farce, I strongly believe it is our responsibility to do our part in preserving what we can. I am all for keeping our planet clean and green...
  • 09-04-2008, 09:20 AM
    jgredline
    Re: And McCain chooses...
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Frog
    Actually I hate that abortion is used as a form of birth control and think Obama's approach of attempting to empathize while he personally finds abortion repugnant a wiser approach than just saying NO to abortion in any circumstance.

    Frog, I am happy to hear you hate abortion, but hating is not enough. We need to do something to stop it. Obama views un-wanted pregnancies as a punishment? He voted to let ''BORN BABIES WHO ESCAPED ABORTION TO BE KILLED'' I View all children as a gift from God. No one life is more valuable than another...


    Quote:

    His goal is to reduce the need for such a high rate. Even McCain said his daughter would have to choose.
    And, yes, Javier, I do know what loving my neighbor means. Doesn't stop me from getting really irritated with them though.
    During the Bush administration abortions are at the lowest rate since Roe V Wade.
    obamas Idea is to pass out more condoms. This is a stupid idea. Abstinence is what should be taught...If abortion was illegal, there would be fewer pregnancies.
  • 09-04-2008, 09:31 AM
    jgredline
    Re: And McCain chooses...
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by big baldo
    Just because someone is "pro-choice" doesn't make them FOR abortion.

    I disagree...Where is the middle ground? Is it in the ''what if my wifes life is in danger? Is it in that the babies life is in danger? Is in that both will die if she has this baby? Where is the middle ground?

    Quote:

    I wouldn't want anyone in my life to have an abortion, but I am VERY pro-choice. Again, It isn't anyones business what goes on in my wifes uterus but hers!!
    What about the babies rights? That baby has every right to live as you and I...When your wife is pregnant, people ask her or others,
    ''How is your baby?'' They don't ask, How is your fetus or how is that lump in your wifes uterus.....




    Quote:

    On the other side, I think that the name needs to be changed from "pro-life" to "pro-birth", because they really dont seem to care after the baby is born.
    Who is they?

    Quote:

    Also, how can someone be "pro-life" and all for the death penalty???
    The death penalty is a another issue, however, I will say that I am not down with it...I would not be able to vote to have someones life taken from them. I can put up a good argument for the death penalty and there are biblical reasons to do this, but there are also biblical reasons not to. I choose life...
  • 09-04-2008, 09:33 AM
    jgredline
    Re: And McCain chooses...
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Frog
    I did listen to Palin's speech last night and heard nothing but rhetoric and attacks on Obama's character. I think a lot of community organizers are going to feel insulted.

    Actually, what she spoke was all factual....and it was the community organizers and lower tier people that should be offended by Obama. or perhaps they should just cling to their religion.
  • 09-04-2008, 11:06 AM
    GB1
    Re: And McCain chooses...
    This is a great thread..... I really like how we are intelligently discussing issues that are deeper than the surface! :thumbsup:
  • 09-04-2008, 11:29 AM
    jgredline
    Re: And McCain chooses...
    G, I agree. I also like the discussion.

    I would love to hear what women believe and think about all this...

    I would like to see what other Christians think about all this...

    I feel so alone here...
  • 09-04-2008, 11:32 AM
    Frog
    Re: And McCain chooses...
    Javier, you seem to believe every thing a Republican regurgitates without checking anything that doesn't agree with what you want it to be.
    Here are some facts about what she said and what her co-horts said about her.
    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080904/...Ly9DXEl8gDW7oF

    This is common in conservative circles and points out that they cannont defend their own veiws except by attacking others and twisting things around...just like accusing anti-war people of not being patriots or any one that disagrees with them of hating america.
    I'm sorry that you make over 90 grand a year so your taxes will go up but then I don't know how the citizens of this country plan to pay off the national debt that our dear leader has racked up without actually paying for it, unless they just want the children of many generations to come to pay for it.
  • 09-04-2008, 11:35 AM
    Frog
    Re: And McCain chooses...
    oh and by the way you do know how other Christians feel about it.
    I'm a Christian and I'm pretty sure Mike is.
  • 09-04-2008, 12:42 PM
    Didache
    Re: And McCain chooses...
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Frog
    oh and by the way you do know how other Christians feel about it.
    I'm a Christian and I'm pretty sure Mike is.

    I was the last time I looked over my congregation and said "We will now sing hymn number 233 ...." :D

    Cheers
    Mike
  • 09-04-2008, 01:16 PM
    GB1
    1 Attachment(s)
    Re: And McCain chooses...
    Hey J,

    Thought you would like this! :D :blush2:
  • 09-04-2008, 03:28 PM
    jgredline
    Re: And McCain chooses...
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Frog
    Javier, you seem to believe every thing a Republican regurgitates without checking anything that doesn't agree with what you want it to be.

    This is not true. You are making an assumption that is false. There are many things about some republicans that I do not like. As I stated earlier, John McCain would not have been my first of second choice. In fact I had it in my head that for the first time in my adult life I was not going to vote for president, but the more I learned about Obama, the more I though it would be in my and my familys best interest NOT to have Obama in office...
    To repeat, My first choice would have been Mike Huckabee with Ron Paul second...

    Quote:

    Here are some facts about what she said and what her co-horts said about her.
    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080904/...Ly9DXEl8gDW7oF
    I will read it when I get home.

    Quote:

    This is common in conservative circles and points out that they cannont defend their own veiws except by attacking others and twisting things around...just like accusing anti-war people of not being patriots or any one that disagrees with them of hating america.
    Your opinion, fair enough.

    Quote:

    I'm sorry that you make over 90 grand a year so your taxes will go up but then I don't know how the citizens of this country plan to pay off the national debt that our dear leader has racked up without actually paying for it, unless they just want the children of many generations to come to pay for it.
    Raising taxes is not the answer...By raising taxes there will be more layoffs, less jobs, less people spending money, more small businesses closing the doors and more product being manufactured in China and other third world countries...
  • 09-04-2008, 03:29 PM
    walterick
    Re: And McCain chooses...
    Thanks Mike for your consideration!

    Rick
  • 09-04-2008, 03:32 PM
    jgredline
    Re: And McCain chooses...
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Frog
    oh and by the way you do know how other Christians feel about it.
    I'm a Christian and I'm pretty sure Mike is.

    Hmmm,
    Two Questions.
    1) Please explain to me what a Christian is. (to be born again)
    2) Please explain how the democratic platform lines up with Christianity.
  • 09-04-2008, 03:33 PM
    jgredline
    Re: And McCain chooses...
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Didache
    I was the last time I looked over my congregation and said "We will now sing hymn number 233 ...." :D

    Cheers
    Mike

    Sounds good, what is him 233 :p :D
  • 09-04-2008, 03:34 PM
    jgredline
    Re: And McCain chooses...
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by GB1
    Hey J,

    Thought you would like this! :D :blush2:

    That really is a cool picture. :p
  • 09-04-2008, 04:17 PM
    walterick
    Where are they on the issues?
    Thank you to everyone for making this thread CIVIL despite the very heated topic! I knew we could do it!

    We touched on many of the most hotly debated subjects facing the country today, and I think we're still standing.

    Now I would like to take a look at the issues:

    It turns out, Obama and McCain share similar views on several key issues. These are:

    Gay marriage
    Global warming
    Immigration
    Stem cell research
    Nuclear weapons

    They appear to differ widely on:

    Iraq
    Gun control
    Health Care
    Taxes
    Abortion

    Some resources:
    <a href="http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-centrists13-2008jul13,0,4649817.story">LA Times</a>

    <a href="http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2008/08/27/america/NA-POL-US-Elections-Where-They-Stand.php">International Herald Tribune (NY Times)</a>

    <a href="http://uspolitics.america.gov/uspolitics/elections/issues.html">America.gov</a>

    Your thoughts? Do the similarities between the candidates change the intensity of the election for you? Does each candidate's position on important issues help you decide who to vote for?

    If you would like to dispute my analysis on their similarities or differences please do so with sources so I can take a look.

    Rick
  • 09-04-2008, 05:12 PM
    Anbesol
    Re: And McCain chooses...
    Where does McCain ever state he actually has any plans on prohibiting abortion?
  • 09-04-2008, 06:20 PM
    jgredline
    Re: And McCain chooses...
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Anbesol
    Where does McCain ever state he actually has any plans on prohibiting abortion?

    First my opinion...While McCain will according to his promise be a pro life president and his voting record proves it, he scares me in that he flirts with that line closely....In other words, he could very easly flip flop, but for now he is pro life...
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  • 09-04-2008, 07:05 PM
    Frog
    Re: And McCain chooses...
    One fact that both parties and their supporters do not mention is that neither man is capable of changing Roe vs Wade. I'm sure a case will come before the Supreme Court again someday and which way they will go is anybody's guess. I suppose if McCain gets in he will tend to choose conservative appointees and Obama the opposite.
    I do wish there were a way to change how supreme court justices are appointed.....they should be neutral when it comes to political ideologies.
  • 09-04-2008, 07:43 PM
    jgredline
    Re: And McCain chooses...
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Frog
    One fact that both parties and their supporters do not mention is that neither man is capable of changing Roe vs Wade. I'm sure a case will come before the Supreme Court again someday and which way they will go is anybody's guess. I suppose if McCain gets in he will tend to choose conservative appointees and Obama the opposite.
    I do wish there were a way to change how supreme court justices are appointed.....they should be neutral when it comes to political ideologies.

    And I could not agree more...But it looks like the next president will appoint three new supreme ct justices.