PhotographyREVIEW.com Off-Topic Forum

Anything that's not related to photography, except religion and politics*. Discuss Britney Spears, your Kiss records, swing dancing, salsa recipes. The Off-Topic forum is moderated by walterick and adina.
*Religious and political threads will be deleted
Results 1 to 16 of 16

Thread: Fuji and Drugs!

  1. #1
    Sitting in a Leaky Dingy Michael Fanelli's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Perryville, MD
    Posts
    926

    Fuji and Drugs!

    It appears that Fujifilm is getting involved in the pharmaceutical industry. To combat declining worldwide demand for their photographic chemicals and film, they have decided that drugs are the the place to be.

    Long, long ago I worked for Kodak's pharmaceutical division. Didn't know they had one? Yep, they did! First they tried it on their own, then they bought out an existing company. Both failed very quickly.

    So many people believe that pharmaceuticals is just like other chemical companies. Its not even close. Is Fuji making a good move or an expensive blunder? What do y'all think?
    "Every great decision creates ripples--like a huge boulder dropped in a lake. The ripples merge and rebound off the banks in unforseeable ways.

  2. #2
    Captain of the Ship Photo-John's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    Salt Lake City, Utah, United States
    Posts
    15,422

    Re: Fuji and Drugs!

    Interesting, and not even entirely off-topic. The common belief is that diversification is good. You don't want all your eggs in one basket. But if you buy into something and then don't know how to manage it, it could end up being a very expensive albatross oround the corporate neck.

    Maybe they can develop drugs that make bad photos look good? That would be a whole new approach to helping people "take" better pictures
    Photo-John

    Your reviews are the foundation of this site - Write A Review!

  3. #3
    Moderator
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    McCordsville, IN
    Posts
    4,755

    Re: Fuji and Drugs!

    Even Eli Lilly, one of the worlds largest drug makers is struggeling. Up until last year they were building more and more facilities here in Greenfield and Indianapolis, then boom they stopped due to lagging sales of their biggest drugs. It takes years of work to get one drug just to the testing stage, then more time to get FDA approval. You can figure from first testing to FDA approval is 15 years. If Fuji expects to sell drugs in the US it will take 15 years just to get the first drug allowed, unless they are going into generic drugs and then it's still 5-10 years to get licensing from the original manufactuer to FDA approval of the final product. I don't see Fuji being solid enough to wait that long, and don't see the profitability in generics to make it worth their while. I see it as a big mistake for Fuji, but hey, it's their "yen" to blow.

    JS
    Canon 1D
    Canon 1D MK II N
    Canon 70-200mm USM IS f2.8
    Canon 200mm f1.8 USM
    Canon 300mm f2.8 USM IS
    Canon 28-300mm USM IS f3.5-5.6
    Canon 50mm f1.8
    Vivitar 19-35mm f3.5-5.6

  4. #4
    Moderator
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    McCordsville, IN
    Posts
    4,755

    Re: Fuji and Drugs!

    Quote Originally Posted by Photo-John
    Interesting, and not even entirely off-topic. The common belief is that diversification is good. You don't want all your eggs in one basket. But if you buy into something and then don't know how to manage it, it could end up being a very expensive albatross oround the corporate neck.

    Maybe they can develop drugs that make bad photos look good? That would be a whole new approach to helping people "take" better pictures
    hahaha...LSD will do that from what an old 60's hippie told me

    JS
    Canon 1D
    Canon 1D MK II N
    Canon 70-200mm USM IS f2.8
    Canon 200mm f1.8 USM
    Canon 300mm f2.8 USM IS
    Canon 28-300mm USM IS f3.5-5.6
    Canon 50mm f1.8
    Vivitar 19-35mm f3.5-5.6

  5. #5
    Viewfinder and Off-Topic Co-Mod walterick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Phoenix AZ
    Posts
    4,655

    Re: Fuji and Drugs!

    Only users lose drugs.

    Michael Moore is doing his next "documentary" on the pharmaceutical industry in America. I will be interested in seeing what dirt he can dig up on them. Allegedly, once the news got out that Moore was shooting his movie all the drug companies sent out memos saying "DO NOT TALK TO MICHAEL MOORE!"

    I for one am against medicine in general, except when used as a last resort. I can usually cure my illnesses with stubborness and vitamins I know not everyone is the same. But I would love to see America begin to remove itself from its addiction to "pills." I believe half of our medicine's effect are simply placebos anyway. You might as well be taking natural herbs and save yourself the cost of prescription drugs.

    An interesting study came out showing the effectiveness of medicines across a time span. Guess what? New drugs are most effective when they are first released! For some reason (placebo) when a drug first comes out its effectiveness is reported higher than a few years later. Same drug, but the "new" has worn off and so the placebo is not as strong.

    If only people could realize that it's all in their mind, and treat their illness as such.

    < down soapbox >
    Walter Rick Long
    Nikon Samurai, Mamiya Master, Velvia Bandit


    Check out the Welcome Thread

    My photography on Myspace

  6. #6
    don't tase me, bro! Asylum Steve's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Middle Florida
    Posts
    3,667

    Yep...

    Quote Originally Posted by walterick
    I for one am against medicine in general, except when used as a last resort...
    Me, too. I spend quite a bit at the ole GNC every month, and ever time I start to complain, I remind myself that money invested in nutrition helps stave off the need and the cost of prescription drugs.

    A tradeoff I'll take every time...

    I'm also lucky I have a doctor that tends to go against conventional "wisdom" (and pharm company pressure), and is VERY hesitant to prescribe meds for his patients. He wouldn't even give me a sleep aid until I tried a whole list of other lifestyle changes to deal with a slight sleep problem a couple of years ago (nope, never needed the drugs).

    Wanna hear something interesting? My sister (who lives in Greece) recently had knee replacement surgery in Athens under the supervision of a controversial doctor that doesn't believe in using drugs (or as absolutely few as possible).

    He instead uses an intense caloric and water restricted diet in the weeks leading up to the surgery (apparently detoxing and strengthening the patient's immune system).

    The result? She needed only the brief general anesthesia during surgery. That was it. No antibiotics, no painkillers during recovery. She not only said the pain was minimal, but she healed more quickly than usual with no infection.

    She also used this therapy for a hip replacement last year, and the hospital said her recovery from that was possibly the quickest they had ever seen for such a procedure...

    Makes you wonder, doesn't it???
    "Riding along on a carousel...tryin' to catch up to you..."

    -Steve
    Studio & Lighting - Photography As Art Forum Moderator

    Running the Photo Asylum, Asylum Steve's blogged brain pipes...
    www.stevenpaulhlavac.com
    www.photoasylum.com

  7. #7
    Viewfinder and Off-Topic Co-Mod walterick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Phoenix AZ
    Posts
    4,655

    Re: Yep...

    Steve,

    I love hearing stories like that I'm glad to hear she had a quick and painless recovery. My gf has had 3 knee surgeries and she still suffers from pain today.

    Speaking of anti-biotics. Are people aware that we are creating super-resistant strains of germs by over-prescribing anti-biotics? Our over-reliance on medicine to cure our woes is creating diseases that medicine will soon no longer be able to cure...

    ... All because there is an industry in America that teaches us we need their product.
    Walter Rick Long
    Nikon Samurai, Mamiya Master, Velvia Bandit


    Check out the Welcome Thread

    My photography on Myspace

  8. #8
    Sitting in a Leaky Dingy Michael Fanelli's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Perryville, MD
    Posts
    926

    Re: Fuji and Drugs!

    Quote Originally Posted by walterick
    I for one am against medicine in general, except when used as a last resort. I can usually cure my illnesses with stubborness and vitamins I know not everyone is the same. But I would love to see America begin to remove itself from its addiction to "pills." I believe half of our medicine's effect are simply placebos anyway. You might as well be taking natural herbs and save yourself the cost of prescription drugs.
    My Rant!

    Well, I used to be like that. Of course, back in 1999, a vein started leaking. I thought I had a flu or something and could just tough it out without some stupid doctor. I came within hours of dying, stayed in intensive care for a few days with three IVs, and was as weak as a kitten for weeks as my iron level tried to come back.

    Then there was the time I was tired all the time. I chalked that up to lack of exercise and old age. Turned out to be raging diabetes with a glucose level over 500. By the time I was rushed to the hospital again, my kidneys were severly damaged and the nerves in my feet were almosr destroyed. Lets not forget the cholesteral of 660 and blood pressure way up to 220/140. Yep, toughing it out.

    Being cautious about going to the doctor for each little annoyance is fine. I spent about ten years at various pharmaceutical companies and know all about the way drugs are found, created, and tested. Yeah, its enough to scare anyone after reading all those ADRs.

    But throwing away all medicine in one big bucket is extremely silly and potentially very dangerous. Yeah, I take insulin twice a day and two blood pressure medicines. They are not placebos!

    end My Rant!
    "Every great decision creates ripples--like a huge boulder dropped in a lake. The ripples merge and rebound off the banks in unforseeable ways.

  9. #9
    Viewfinder and Off-Topic Co-Mod walterick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Phoenix AZ
    Posts
    4,655

    Re: Fuji and Drugs!

    Michael,

    You're exactly right. Going to the doctor every time you cough is one thing, ignoring major health problems is another. I am ALL FOR professional medical attention, and I wish there were better ways to scan the body now for potential future problems. I wish everyone would go and get more frequent checkups, and perform the correct self-examinations for tumors that we all know we should be doing, but...

    My rant is against the dependency of this country upon "medication." Your conditions are serious, and the drugs you take help to bring your body into homeostasis. You're right, there's no placebo there. Yet I bet you that for every American out there whose body requires prescription drugs, there is another whose mind requires them. People who walk into a doctor's office and won't leave until they are given a "pill." I am not downplaying your medical conditions. I have an eye on the world of preventive medicine there is out there, and only wish people would begin taking care of themselves BEFORE their body gives out of them. Sittting quietly and being with your thoughts for several minutes a day can have huge effects on your bodily, mental, and spiritual health. And breathing comes a lot cheaper than meds, surgeries, psychotherapy, even repentance. I am not picking on you of course Michael just want to send a message out to people to TAKE BETTER CARE OF YOURSELVES!

    End rant ;)
    Walter Rick Long
    Nikon Samurai, Mamiya Master, Velvia Bandit


    Check out the Welcome Thread

    My photography on Myspace

  10. #10
    sqrt -1 greghalliday's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    American Fork, Utah
    Posts
    211

    Re: Fuji and Drugs!

    Interesting posts everyone. One thing. If we are going to talk about studies that are done regarding medication, let us cite our sources. That way we may read the original source and interpret for ourselves its value. Most would say that medicine is as much an art as a science, but for most professional who work in this field we view it as science first and art second. That said, there is no doubting the power of the human mind to stave off pain and suffering. A standard example of this was a study done by Army doctors caring for the wounded at Anzio beach. If given 10mg of morphine and told they would be patched up and returned to the front vs. no morphine and the news that their injuries were a ticket home, the latter group reported significantly less pain from their wounds. The mind is an amazing thing. I'm fine with simple remedies and preventative measures that eschew the use of conventional medicine, but when your pipes break, you call a plumber. You don't just stand there and swear at them.

    P.S. everyone has a story about an aunt who did this, a sister who had this experience etc... But on the scale of evidential value, anecdotes are the absolute lowest rung of usefulness.
    Greg Halliday PA-C MPAS

  11. #11
    Moderator
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    McCordsville, IN
    Posts
    4,755

    Re: Fuji and Drugs!

    Actually I stand there and swear at the pipes, then after a few minutes get out the tools and fix it myself.....plumbers are way over paid! But then so are doctors, and I will delay treatment as long as possible....thats why it took from October to two weeks ago to get my shoulder fixed....it was easier to deal with the pain as long as I could than get surgery on it.....;)

    JS
    Canon 1D
    Canon 1D MK II N
    Canon 70-200mm USM IS f2.8
    Canon 200mm f1.8 USM
    Canon 300mm f2.8 USM IS
    Canon 28-300mm USM IS f3.5-5.6
    Canon 50mm f1.8
    Vivitar 19-35mm f3.5-5.6

  12. #12
    sqrt -1 greghalliday's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    American Fork, Utah
    Posts
    211

    Re: Fuji and Drugs!

    Doctors are overpaid? Compared to who? Teachers, probably yes. Movie stars and CEOs of huge corporations, not so much. The market will bear what it thinks the payee is worth. That's why A-Rod makes 25 million in his 10 year contract. If you are in a car accident and come to my ER where I insert a chest tube to reinflate your collapsed lung and my supervising physician performs pericardiocentesis so your cardiac tamponnade doesn't kill you I would think that, for what you get, the 107,000 per year the physicians make at my institution is a bargain. Is 107 grand a year a lot? Absolutely (and much more than the PAs make) but not excessively so.
    Greg

    P.S. I really do respect you all very much and value your opinions and really don't want to turn this into a flame fest.

  13. #13
    Moderator
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    McCordsville, IN
    Posts
    4,755

    Re: Fuji and Drugs!

    Doctors overpaid, are you kidding me? Ok, I just had shoulder surgery (on the 6th), the very first visit cost $175.00 for him to "look" at it and decide to give three injections at a cost $145.00 PER INJECTION
    Visit #1 $435.00+175.00 = $610.00
    Second visit, sees me for 30 seconds and asks if the injections two weeks earlier helped (no), orders MRI and out I go $175.00 for the 30 second visit
    Third visit another $175.00 to tell me I need surgery time 1 minute!
    So far three visits $960.00 total time not even 10 minutes of the doctors time.
    Surgery $20,000 for 1.5 hours of his time in my shoulder - that doesn't count anything but the doctor!
    Were now at $20,960.00
    Last weeks checkup, 2 minutes, mosst of which was spent writing a script for meds. $235.00
    Now up to $21,195.00
    Yesterdays appointment, 30 seconds to ask how I am doing, watch me raise my arm, 1 minute to remove 3 stitches $485.00!

    Grand total for the doctor only, no hospital costs, no PT costs, just the doctor $21,680.00 and I was patient # 19 for the day which started at 1pm. And I was released, don't have to ga back to him unless I have problems.
    After him I had to go to physical therapy, 45 minutes time there, the therapist has two patients at a time. They put a heating pad on me for 15 minutes, I then had to do three seperate exercises and then he put ice on my shoulder for 15 minutes... Cost $385.00.

    Then at the beginning of everything there was the family doctor who sent me to the surgeon to begin with. One appointment, 5 minutes checking the shoulder and saying "I think I'll send to the surgeon" ..... $185.00

    Yes, doctors are overpaid.
    And I can't wait to see the hospital bill. I was there from 11:30am to 6:00pm and will be $15,000 - $20,000.

    Oh, I should add that exactly 10 years ago I had the other shoulder operated on, that one, at the same hospital, counting doctor, PT, and hospital cost a total of $21,000, 10 years later the doctor alone cost more than that surgery...no way!
    JS
    Canon 1D
    Canon 1D MK II N
    Canon 70-200mm USM IS f2.8
    Canon 200mm f1.8 USM
    Canon 300mm f2.8 USM IS
    Canon 28-300mm USM IS f3.5-5.6
    Canon 50mm f1.8
    Vivitar 19-35mm f3.5-5.6

  14. #14
    Poster Formerly Known as Michael Fanelli mwfanelli's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Perryville, MD
    Posts
    727

    Re: Fuji and Drugs!

    Quote Originally Posted by JSPhoto
    Doctors overpaid, are you kidding me? Ok, I just had shoulder surgery (on the 6th), the very first visit cost $175.00 for him to "look" at it and decide to give three injections at a cost $145.00 PER INJECTION...
    Some doctors are overpaid. But did you ask how much the medicine in those injections actually cost the doctor? Should the doctor eat that expense to save you money? Did you ask how much his insurance bill is each month? How about the massive student loans he took out to become a doctor? How about the major discounts the doctor gives out for people such as myself who just can't afford it otherwise?

    As for hospitals, yeah they are overpriced for some things. But did you ask how many patients they treat for free, patients who can't afford their own doctors? How about the costs of all that expensive equipment? Some regions share things such as scanners to save money. How about all the insurance costs for all the doctors and nurses that the hospital picks up?

    Blaming the providers for high prices is missing the real issue. Health care in this country is in crisis because we are spending huge budget dollars elsewhere for extremely dubious purposes. Until that is fixed, nothing will work out right.
    "Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." --Mark Twain

  15. #15
    sqrt -1 greghalliday's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    American Fork, Utah
    Posts
    211

    Re: Fuji and Drugs!

    Mr. Fanelli is exactly right. Unless one knows anything about the insurance and billing processes and how many patients we in medicine treat absolutely for free, one cannot comment on the over pricing of healthcare. It is not the doctor who decided to bill you 20,000 dollars for your surgery. It is the hospital. Why? Because of the 45 elderly patients last week who had their hips replaced under Medicare and Medicaid payment scenarios. Because of the uninsured drunk driver who wrecked his car and spends 18 hours in surgery to be fixed up and basically gets around 500,000 dollars of care for free. You have got to be kidding me if you really think that the doctor sees all 20,000 of those dollars you see on the bill. Example. A level 3 clinic visit for Family Practice is billed at 107.00. This is approx. a 15 min. visit. Medicare and Medicaid will pay 50 dollars. In my neck of the woods, ALL patients recieve free medical care from the U.S. Government from the simple fact that they are native american. So the payment scheme falls under this lower amount. So, in the clinic per provider that amounts to 150-200 dollars per hour for the doctor's pay, nursing pay, CNA pay, hospital admin costs, and various items such as bandages and other consumables.

    Doctors are not overpaid. They overbill. This is for sound fiduciary reasons. You (or rather your insurance company) are paying this amount, just as Michael stated, not because of ACTUAL costs, but to recoup losses. If it were not so, there could be no hospitals and your shoulder would still be messed up.

    Trust me. Ask ANY doctor how much he makes. I can guarantee you it will be MUCH less than you think.
    Greg Halliday PA-C MPAS

  16. #16
    Viewfinder and Off-Topic Co-Mod walterick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Phoenix AZ
    Posts
    4,655

    Re: Fuji and Drugs!

    I think I am in agreement with Michael and Greg here. I like the way Greg said it; doctors are not overpaid, they overbill. Now, we can have a whole new debate on whether or not the paying consumer should be charged for the financial inadequacies of another.

    I am more interested in the other comment: doctors are overpaid compared to whom?

    Why is it that teachers in this country make a relatively meager living, given the importance of the work that they do? Why do our entertainers make millions? Baseball players, football players, singers, guitar players... they can make more in a year than I will see in a lifetime. Why is this? Why does our society value our entertainers over our educators? Why why why? We have got it backwards, and yet no one seems to care.
    Walter Rick Long
    Nikon Samurai, Mamiya Master, Velvia Bandit


    Check out the Welcome Thread

    My photography on Myspace

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •