Nature and Wildlife Photography Forum

Discuss all types of nature and wildlife photography, photo techniques, equipment, and share your nature and wildlife photos.
Featured Photo
Photo by BMOORE

by BMOORE
Featured Photo Archive >>
Results 1 to 17 of 17
  1. #1
    Learning more with every "click" mjs1973's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Mineral Point, WI, USA
    Posts
    7,562

    What would you do? A discussion on ethics

    I took my dogs for a walk in one of our usual spots today. As I got out of the truck, I heard a strange sound. I looked up and saw a RT hawk, but the sound wasn't being made by the bird. It was being made by the rabbit in it's talons. As we walked along the trail, one of my dogs found the rabbit laying in the snow. The hawk had dropped it's prey. I got my dog away from the rabbit, which was still alive, but unable to do get up and get away. My hope was that if we got out of there, the hawk would come back for it's meal.

    On our way back to the truck, we found the rabbit had scooted about 3 feet down the hill, but was still there, and still alive. I took the dogs home, grabbed my camera, and went back to try to get some photos of the hawk coming back for the rabbit. The rabbit had managed to move a few more feet down the hill, but was still there, and still alive.

    I set up my camera and hid under a tree in my camo, and waited. After about a half hour, the hawk came back. I could hear it, and see it flying over head, but it never came close to the rabbit. Eventually if flew off, out of site, and out of ear shot.

    I had thought about moving the injured, rabbit to the trail, where it would be much easier to see for the hawk, and much better for getting a photo if the hawk did come back. My other options were to kill the rabbit to keep it from suffering, take it to an animal rehabilitater, or to do nothing.

    I opted to do nothing, and let nature take it's course. The rabbit was still alive when I left, but I'm sure it won't make it through the night. It will either fall victim to a predator, or the cold, but that is the reality of nature.

    Doing nothing was the right answer for me, but it might not be the right answer for everyone.

    What would you have done?
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails What would you do?  A discussion on ethics-crw_2731.jpg  
    Mike

    My website
    Twitter
    Blog


    "I thought that because fewer wolves meant more deer, that no wolves would mean hunters' paradise. But after seeing the green fire die, I sensed that neither the wolf nor the mountain agreed with such a view."
    Aldo Leopold

  2. #2
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Toronto, Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    1,477

    Re: What would you do? A discussion on ethics

    I agree with you Michael. Mother nature started the incident not the hand of man. IF it starts in nature...leave it there. Had the Rabbit been caught in a trap or something like that I may have been tempted personally to take it to a vet or a rehabilitation clinic, but mother nature obviously has a plan of some sort from the way things began.
    Shooting with an Olympus Evolt E-510 and loving it


    Equipment list:
    Olympus Evolt E-3, E-620, E-500
    Olympus Zuiko 40 - 150 F4.0 - 5.6
    Olympus Zuiko 14 - 45 F 2.8 - 3.6
    Sigma 50 - 500 F 4.0 - 6.3
    Sigma 70 - 200 F2.8
    Olympus FL-38 Flash x2
    Vivitar 285 HV
    Better Beamer Flash Extender

    http://www.jdtimages.ca/

    A Photographer that is fluent in Sarcasm.

  3. #3
    Film Forum Moderator Xia_Ke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Mainahh
    Posts
    3,353

    Re: What would you do? A discussion on ethics

    It's always a tough choice Michael. One that I have run into a few times while hiking. As much as I hate walking away, I always opt for the "let nature take it's course" way
    Aaron Lehoux * flickr
    Please do not edit my photos, thank you.

  4. #4
    Nature/Wildlife Forum Co-Moderator Loupey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Central Ohio
    Posts
    7,856

    Re: What would you do? A discussion on ethics

    The only choice in my book.

    Had you taken it to a vet, the rabbit would have become accustomed to people and probably wouldn't have been fit for life in the wild anyway. Had you killed it, a non-scavanging predator may pass it by.

    Besides, if the RT hawk had caught it in the first place, the survival-of-the-fittest mode did not apply to this particular rabbit. Nature has her ways. Best when people do not interfere with her.
    Please do not edit or repost my images.

    See my website HERE.


    What's a Loupe for anyway?

  5. #5
    Senior Member Knight's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    1,981

    Re: What would you do? A discussion on ethics

    And the right thing you did Micheal,Mother Nature will take care of things in her own way.
    Nikon Samurai # 24

    ( The hiker's creed. )

    Take only pictures, Leave only footprints, Kill only time.


  6. #6
    Senior Member Canon_Bob's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Fort Myers, FL, USA
    Posts
    752

    Re: What would you do? A discussion on ethics

    It's always tough to see any creature suffer, but I think you did exactly the right thing. Let nature work it out. She's better at it than we ever will be.

  7. #7
    Senior Member AmberC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    1,029

    Re: What would you do? A discussion on ethics

    I agree that doing nothing was the proper choice too.
    Amber
    cam: Sony a100 DSLR
    Please do not edit my images.. thanks

  8. #8
    Senior Member readingr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Basingstoke UK
    Posts
    4,564

    Re: What would you do? A discussion on ethics

    Sorry chaps, but I disagree and I would have killed it. I hate seeing animals suffer no matter what the cause is. It would make no difference in the long run. Something would have come along and ate it.

    Roger
    "I hope we will never see the day when photo shops sell little schema grills to clamp onto our viewfinders; and the Golden Rule will never be found etched on our ground glass." from The mind's eye by Henri Cartier-Bresson

    My Web Site: www.readingr.com

    DSLR
    Canon 5D; EF100-400 F4.5-5.6L IS USM; EF24-70 F2.8L USM 50mm F1.8 II; EF 100 F2.8 Macro
    Digital
    Canon Powershot Pro 1; Canon Ixus 100


  9. #9
    Learning more with every "click" mjs1973's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Mineral Point, WI, USA
    Posts
    7,562

    Re: What would you do? A discussion on ethics

    Quote Originally Posted by readingr
    It would make no difference in the long run.
    Are you sure about that? The struggling rabbit would be much easier to see from the air by the hawk than it would be if it wasn't moving. Would that not be detrimental to the survival of the hawk? If the hawk was starving because it couldn't find that rabbit, would it then be ok to kill the hawk, to keep it from suffering?

    I'm not trying to pick on you Roger, I understand where you're coming from. I'm just trying to keep the conversation going. I think that in the long run, trying to "help" the situation, is going to have consequences that we may not be aware of. Like taking the injured animal to a vet, would the same as taking food away from some other animal, such as the hawk, or a vulture , or a coyote that may find it.

    What if it had been someones pet cat that had caught the rabbit? An animal that IMO should not be left to roam and kill at will. Would that change how you react to this situation? Or had it been hit by a car?
    Mike

    My website
    Twitter
    Blog


    "I thought that because fewer wolves meant more deer, that no wolves would mean hunters' paradise. But after seeing the green fire die, I sensed that neither the wolf nor the mountain agreed with such a view."
    Aldo Leopold

  10. #10
    Senior Member readingr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Basingstoke UK
    Posts
    4,564

    Re: What would you do? A discussion on ethics

    I have to point out that animals use more than sight to locate food and a rotting carcass will attract loads of animals including bugs.

    Other than the Hawk which was probably frightened away by the photographer which it could see, yes they can spot changes in landscape or minor reflections and anything out of the ordinary will make them think twice before returning. It probably could have found it dead or alive. Moving the carcass to an open area would have helped the hawk find it.

    To me suffering is not acceptable but I respect your opinions and the way that you dealt with it. I could not have left it to suffer and my action probably would have provided food to some critter, even the hawk.

    An experiment of adding a remote small camera into a sod of earth in a field in Wales where Red Kytes are normally fed by throwing raw meat into the field saw the Kytes circle but not land to eat as normal. They removed the camera and the kytes decended within 30 minutes to eat the already scattered food. They had been feeding the birds like this for 356 days prior to this. They have terrific eye sight.

    Roger
    "I hope we will never see the day when photo shops sell little schema grills to clamp onto our viewfinders; and the Golden Rule will never be found etched on our ground glass." from The mind's eye by Henri Cartier-Bresson

    My Web Site: www.readingr.com

    DSLR
    Canon 5D; EF100-400 F4.5-5.6L IS USM; EF24-70 F2.8L USM 50mm F1.8 II; EF 100 F2.8 Macro
    Digital
    Canon Powershot Pro 1; Canon Ixus 100


  11. #11
    project forum co-moderator Frog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    wa state
    Posts
    11,195

    Re: What would you do? A discussion on ethics

    Why do we try to separate ourselves from 'nature'.
    Kill it and take it home to cook.
    I'm thinking this answer won't be popular.
    Keep Shooting!

    CHECK OUT THE PHOTO PROJECT FORUM
    http://forums.photographyreview.com/...splay.php?f=34

    Please refrain from editing my photos without asking.

  12. #12
    Senior Member Dylan8i's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Yellowstone NP, USA
    Posts
    1,878

    Re: What would you do? A discussion on ethics

    Quote Originally Posted by Frog
    Why do we try to separate ourselves from 'nature'.
    Kill it and take it home to cook.
    I'm thinking this answer won't be popular.
    thats actually what i was going to say.... i didn't cause i didn't think it would be popular!

    i would have left it though. suffering is life, only humans think it should be avoided....
    check out my photography website
    http://dylanschneider.zenfolio.com/



    Please feel free to edit or change any of my pictures to show me how to improve them.



    Nikon D200
    Nikon D7000 w/grip
    Nikkor AF-S 18-135
    Nikkor AF-S 60mm macro 2.8
    Nikon 70-200 2.8 vr
    Nikon tc-17eII
    Kenoko extension tube set
    SB-600

  13. #13
    Learning more with every "click" mjs1973's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Mineral Point, WI, USA
    Posts
    7,562

    Re: What would you do? A discussion on ethics

    It may not be a popular answer, but it does add to the conversation. Why do we feel the need to separate ourselves from nature?
    Mike

    My website
    Twitter
    Blog


    "I thought that because fewer wolves meant more deer, that no wolves would mean hunters' paradise. But after seeing the green fire die, I sensed that neither the wolf nor the mountain agreed with such a view."
    Aldo Leopold

  14. #14
    Nature/Wildlife Forum Co-Moderator Loupey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Central Ohio
    Posts
    7,856

    Re: What would you do? A discussion on ethics

    Quote Originally Posted by mjs1973
    ... Why do we feel the need to separate ourselves from nature?
    I think people-kind tend to always tip the balance too much in any one direction. We either help too much (kill the predators, the deer go amuck), do too much (kill some passenger pigeons, oops killed them all), or do too little (start burning fossil fuels with no plan on curbing the consumption).

    I've always felt that we humans were mother nature's experiment gone haywire. We've grown far too dangerous for everything - from the planet down to and including ourselves. What little "nature" that still exists (no matter how small), should be left untouched by the hands of man. So long as we do not interfere along the way, let nature plan, execute, and nuture itself. We cannot think we know how to do this better than she can we? We've been around for only (fill in the blank with your own belief) years and screwed things up royally for everything else in that time. Earth been doing it for 4.6 billion years before that.

    JMHO


    And yes, I get especially mad when people go out of their way to kill a yellow jacket, wasp, spider, snake, etc. for no fault other than being just a yellow jacket, wasp, spider, snake, etc.
    Please do not edit or repost my images.

    See my website HERE.


    What's a Loupe for anyway?

  15. #15
    Learning more with every "click" mjs1973's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Mineral Point, WI, USA
    Posts
    7,562

    Re: What would you do? A discussion on ethics

    After work today, I went back to see what became of the rabbit. I was expecting to find either a pile of fur, or a frozen rabbit. I was surprised to find neither. I found a small blood trail that lead about 10 or 15 yards, and ending at a fresh dug hole about the size of my fist. I can only assume the rabbit dug the hole, but who knows for sure. What surprises me the most is that any thing would be able to dig a hole in the ice covered snow that we have. I broke a wooden handled shovel yesterday trying to move this stuff. Today I was able to walk on top of the snow without breaking through, and I weight about 240 pounds. Perhaps the rabbit wasn't hurt as bad as I thought it was, or maybe something else dug the hole...
    Mike

    My website
    Twitter
    Blog


    "I thought that because fewer wolves meant more deer, that no wolves would mean hunters' paradise. But after seeing the green fire die, I sensed that neither the wolf nor the mountain agreed with such a view."
    Aldo Leopold

  16. #16
    Nature/Wildlife Forum Co-Moderator Loupey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Central Ohio
    Posts
    7,856

    Re: What would you do? A discussion on ethics

    The reason why I like nature photography over any other kind of photography is that I'm always learning and often astonished by what I observe. With no harm and no interference in the process
    Please do not edit or repost my images.

    See my website HERE.


    What's a Loupe for anyway?

  17. #17
    Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Northamptonshire. UK
    Posts
    300

    Re: What would you do? A discussion on ethics

    Quote Originally Posted by Xia_Ke
    As much as I hate walking away, I always opt for the "let nature take it's course" way
    I know it's sometimes hard to walk away, but I agree with Xia Ke.

    Cassie.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •