Baiting wildlife for a better photo...

This was the topic posted on a birding blog today so I thougth I would start a thread here to see what others thougth about the subject. Here is a link to the blog if you would like to read it.

Is it ok to bait wildlife to get a better photo? Would you set mice free in a field where you knew a rare owl was hunting in hopes of creating a nice photo opportunity? Would you put out bait to attract deer or a bear in hopes of getting a great photo? Is it any differant than taking pics of the birds that visit the feeders out in our yards? Is it any differant than attracting animals by sound such as a bird or deer call?

What do you think about this subject?

Well, I don't shoot much wildlife, but I think it is a bad idea to just bait hoping to get a shot. Nothing takes the place of good research, and leaving bait piles can be a violation of your state's laws when done in the wrong season.

I HATE those who bait owls!

nothing more to say that is nice atleast ;)

My gut feel is that it is probably not a good idea to bait the owl with mice. I certainly understand the desire to see a rare bird and watch it hunt but at the same time I think it would be pretty selfish to potentially cause the bird harm for my entertainment or financial gain.

I have also heard debates about birdwatchers and bird photographers using recordings to lure birds out for looks or photo opps and both sides of those debates seem to have their merits.

In both cases my take is that the activity might be beneficial in certain situations but such activities should be held to a minimum. For a bird like the owl in the article I think it is a bad idea to use these sorts of techniques as the owl is getting a lot of attention from the public and will potentially get lots of exposure to the baiting. Whatever effect the baiting has is going to be magnified quite a bit.

I experienced a similar situation last year when a Streak-backed oriole showed up at a nearby state park. As soon as the word got out that the bird was present birdwatchers and photographers showed up in droves. There were people tromping all over the place in the area that the bird had been hanging out. I noticed piles of birdseed all over the place and orange slices stuck on trees… I heard reports of people using recordings of the bird to try to lure it out. When someone did spot the bird it created a stampede of birdwatchers and a mob would form in the vicinity of the bird. I noticed that the bird started staying a lot higher in the trees and further from the trails than it had been before the public was aware of it. As a result people started trampling the plants along the trails and doing some damage to the park. The park naturalist even had to go so far as threatening to start writing citations to get people to behave better. The bird did stay even after a month of acute attention and didn’t really seem to be negatively affected by all the attention but the whole situation didn’t really leave a good impression about birdwatchers and wildlife photographers.

If nothing else this sort of behavior is not good PR for nature photographers and plays a major role in the bad name we get with a lot of people. Nature photographers really need to pay attention to how our activities are perceived by the public as well as being very careful not to harm our subjects.

Greg

We had a very similar situation in our area with a snowy owl. It was in a park and people just couldn't resist trying to get close to the bird. The park rangers finally started ticketing people for getting too close. There was another snowy in a dif. area that would roost in an open feild, and people would try to walk right up to it... This type of behavior makes us all look bad.

I wan't a great photo as much as the next guy, but risking the health and well being of these birds isn't worth it. After all, for me, the fact that these animals are wild, it what makes them so special. I could go to the zoo and get a great shot of an animal, but it just isn't the same as seeing it in the wild.

I would have to say no to baiting. I don't see it being the same as feeding the birds with feeders. For all the reason listed by others and the man with the blog, I just think it would be bad for the animal that was being baited. Being able to find wildlife in the wild is a big part of the thrill I would think.

I'm kind of torn on this subject. I haven't read the link above yet, but based on the discussion here I'd have to say that I both agree and disagree with baiting. My biggest problem, as stated by dadas, is the droves of people damaging the environment and disturbing the animal or bird they are trying admire. In short, I see no problem with an occasional baiting if it does not lead to destructive behavior by "people" or does not cause the animal harm by changing or trying to change it's normal behavior to the point where it causes the animal to be dependent on the baiting. I have been a "hunter" in the past and now am basically against "hunting". But it is perfectly acceptable in the hunting world to "lure" animals "in close" so that you can KILL them. We even have seasons for this mass slaughter of our wildlife. People use everything from "calls" to "pee" or other scents to lure animals. Yes, in most, if not all, states...laying out food to bait is against the law. If we can allow luring in hunting, why is "my type of hunting (with a camera)" any different.
That being said...we do need to protect our wildlife and nature in general. We need to figure out how to keep masses of people from gathering in close proximity to rare or seldom seen wildlife. Maybe we need to start doing like hunters and have licenses and seasons...(I'm being facetious)!! But, I see nothing wrong with one or 2 photographers turning loose a single mouse in a field to witness an owl or other predator bird in action, PROVIDED, that it is not a regular event causing the bird to become dependent on this for it's regular hunting.
I guess it's a fine line and until people become more responsible for their actions, I guess I'm going to have to say, let's not allow it.
Ken

We have an owl hiding out back that I'd love to photos of, but I won't bait it to do it. I have a feeling that 90% of the photos you see in magazines and so on are from pros who do bait their targeted creatures. One well known nature photographer admited to me he did bait them, saying he wouldn't make any money sitting around waiting on them to come out of hiding.

JS

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Originally Posted by mjs1973

We had a very similar situation in our area with a snowy owl. It was in a park and people just couldn't resist trying to get close to the bird. The park rangers finally started ticketing people for getting too close. There was another snowy in a dif. area that would roost in an open feild, and people would try to walk right up to it... This type of behavior makes us all look bad.

I wan't a great photo as much as the next guy, but risking the health and well being of these birds isn't worth it. After all, for me, the fact that these animals are wild, it what makes them so special. I could go to the zoo and get a great shot of an animal, but it just isn't the same as seeing it in the wild.

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Most of these peoples behavoir are from people who do not have any Idea there doing anytime wrong. IE to far removed from the food chain. (I could rant on for ever...) Like the hikers becoming mountain lion food in CA.

GRF

I think half the fun of wild animal photography is learning all you can about the species your after. My favorite animals to photograph are wading birds. There are so many different kinds and many have very different habits.
From the Cattle Egret that feeds in fields mostly to Night Herons that usually aren't seen until close to dusk to the Great Blue Heron which is about the weariest of all birds and hardest to get close to.
The more you learn, the better you'll be able to "think" like them and the better you'll be able to find them.
If you take that approach, you won't need to bait.

True, but with passerines a well placed perch near a drip pond, feeder, cup of meal worms or even an orange is very helpful in achiving that perfect image. I for one case down and stalk my prey on breeding grounds mostly, so I do tend to agree with you.

I don't see any harm in feeders or even using road kills to attract vultures/ raptors in close, but something about letting mice run free in a snowy field is just plain wrong. I have no formal evidence of it being harmful, but it just seems unhealthy for the owl to me. The owl is there due to depleted food supply on it's home range. So why would one want to essentually keep it somewhere with a few meals, when it either has enough food where you found it, or it should move on to better areas to feed.

Feeding snowy owls for instance , may keep it in that area TOO LONG. By staying to long into spring, it will DIE on it's return trip from lack of findable food!!! That is a fact too!

I have not read that article, or do I wish to.

Baiting wildlife for a better picture is generally VERY bad for wildlife. I won't go into all the reasons in this thread but I have previously listed over 100 reasons not to bait in other threads. Here's just one. Baiting disrupts the animals natural behavior. If you don't understand or agree with that philosophy you should not be around wildlife. Period.
Who doesn't want to get that fabulous shot, but lets keep our precious wildlife jut that, wild.
I have plenty of close shots of animals without disturbing them and it is sometimes a lot of work but rewarding in the end. I know this is a very controversial subject but if you are a baiter consider the impact you are having.

There are actually some people that will throw out bait and put a hook in it and attach it to a line so that when the animal does go to eat it they get hooked and the person can pull the wild animal right to them! Oh that's right they call it fishing. LOL

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Originally Posted by pixel pitch

Baiting wildlife for a better picture is generally VERY bad for wildlife. I won't go into all the reasons in this thread but I have previously listed over 100 reasons not to bait in other threads. Here's just one. Baiting disrupts the animals natural behavior. If you don't understand or agree with that philosophy you should not be around wildlife. Period.
Who doesn't want to get that fabulous shot, but lets keep our precious wildlife jut that, wild.
I have plenty of close shots of animals without disturbing them and it is sometimes a lot of work but rewarding in the end. I know this is a very controversial subject but if you are a baiter consider the impact you are having.

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[ sarcasm font]You're right! I just went out and emptied all of my bird and squirrel feeders.[ /sarcasm font]

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Originally Posted by OldClicker

[ sarcasm font]You're right! I just went out and emptied all of my bird and squirrel feeders.[ /sarcasm font]

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I'm not going to read this whole thread. But I see an obvious disconnect here. Context is required for this to be a more useful and reasonable discussion. I don't know exactly where pixel pitch is coming from since it's his or her first post. But my first inclination is to agree with their point of view. Bird feeders are one thing. But there's a saying - "feed a bear, kill a bear." Baiting wildlife like that really is disruptive and dangerous on many levels. So, I don't think sarcasm is really useful here. Nor are somewhat vague posts like pixel pitch made. If we want to talk about this, we need to define our terms better and make it a really useful discussion.

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Originally Posted by Photo-John

I'm not going to read this whole thread. But I see an obvious disconnect here. Context is required for this to be a more useful and reasonable discussion. I don't know exactly where pixel pitch is coming from since it's his or her first post. But my first inclination is to agree with their point of view. Bird feeders are one thing. But there's a saying - "feed a bear, kill a bear." Baiting wildlife like that really is disruptive and dangerous on many levels. So, I don't think sarcasm is really useful here. Nor are somewhat vague posts like pixel pitch made. If we want to talk about this, we need to define our terms better and make it a really useful discussion.

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Except 'pixel pitch' did include birds and everything else - everywhere. (Also, baiting is not the same as feeding.) If a photographer baits a coyote with one dead mouse to get the shot he wants, that is not going to significantly change the coyote’s normal feeding habits of eating the local suburban cats and small dogs. The blanket statement was condescending and absurd and deserved the sarcasm and more.

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Originally Posted by OldClicker

The blanket statement was condescending and absurd and deserved the sarcasm and more.

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Maybe so. But that doesn't help us make a better site. Rise above it and show 'em how we do it here :-)

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Originally Posted by Photo-John

Maybe so. But that doesn't help us make a better site. Rise above it and show 'em how we do it here :-)

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Sorry, but he baited the wildlife.

I did put in a couple of suggestions in the mod forum to help the site.

Last year in Nyack NY, a guy was baiting Bald Eagles with chicken parts, they would land and eat the chickens then another guy would bang a metal can to make them fly away so the guy can get in flight shots of them. There was a story in a local paper, if I can find it I will post it. In the article it does not say what he did but I saw him do it and let the cops know about it, he was hit with a huge fine.

I like the wildlife photography but we live in the city where there is only building and no park or forest near us :(

Sorry for the confusion in my earlier post on my position regarding baiting. I was only referring to the raptor baiting, Owls, Eagles Ospreys and the like. You can refill your bird feeders and I won't take offense.

I think seed birding is ok, However, I have had a Raptor swoop on my seed birds ???