I require your enlighted experience from somone who has none

[Occhio]

I must admit when it comes to photography I don't have a clue and I could really use some good advice. My eldest daughter just recently entered high school and has opted to take part in a photography class. I was told that I need to purchase a camera for her with the following features:

Adjustable aperture
Adjustable shutter
Manual Focus

I though it would be easy to find a camera with these components - I was wrong. A little trip into town introduced me to a salesman I did not like and an asking price of $800. I informed the salesman that I am not as stupid as people he is use to being around and proceeded to head home to scan the Internet. Problems that I ran into is, even though I get a huge listing of features on the cameras, I can't tell if the aperture is adjustable. None of them simply say that. As for shutter speed - they all are adjustable, but how fast do I need it to be? Half the time I go to buy a camera, it has no lens! Sorry - but I kinda think of that as me buying a car without wheels.

I would be more than happy to get any advice on this that I can. I am hoping that my daughter will continue and enjoy photography (she REALLY needs a hobby) and I do not want to get her something cheap that will not do what is required of her. However, I am not going to pay $800 for one. I was hoping to spend $200 at the very most, but hope that I can go well below that too.

Thank you so much for your time and any advice that you offer.

John N.

[another view]

Being told that you have to spend $800 to get that is absurd. If you happen to live in the same town in Illinois as me, I could guess the store... The least expensive you can get away with to get what you need and still get a good camera would be an all-manual used camera. For well under $200 you can have your choice of several, here's a few good ones she might want to start with:

Nikon FE or FM (FE does have an auto exposure mode)
Canon AE-1 (may have an auto exposure mode?)
Olympus OM series (1, 2, 3 or 4 - I don't know much about their cameras but they are good)
Pentax K1000

These cameras all have interchangeable lenses and are usually sold without a lens. Any recommendations from the course instructor? The standard would be a 50mm f1.8 or f2 which would also be very inexpensive (included in the $200 above).

If/when she decides to continue and buy more lenses, they are available. However, most people are using autofocus which none of these cameras will do. They also don't have any automatic functions which might come in handy. At that point, she can look into something different but plenty of people have had a good start (or are still using) one of these cameras above.

[Occhio]

Ah, yes, what a small world it is. I am in Roscoe and that shop, which you probably guessed right, is on perryville.

Thank you so much for your reply - any help with this is much appericated. I am going to look into the cameras that you suggested. In the mean time I have been doing a lot of research on the camera myself - any thoughts on a Canon rebel 2000? I can't tell if the aperture is what she needs. The lens doesn't seem to be ideal, but I figure that's something that can easily be expanded on in the future if she decides to stick with it.

[another view]

Very small world! That is exactly the place I was thinking of... The one in Edgebrook (you probably know which one I mean) is a complete opposite - very friendly and very helpful. Put it this way, I had my Mom go there to get a camera. They also have a small amount of used equipment. Since they don't have Nikon, most of my equipment comes from www.bhphotovideo.com in New York.

I can't tell you much about Canon - I'm a Nikon shooter. But sticking with one of those two makes sense for building a system down the road. The Canon EOS cameras, like that one, are not compatible with their older FD mount (like the AE-1, F-1 and A-1). EOS is the newer system - been out for years though. I'm not sure which lens you mean, but an inexpensive lens (from either) is fine to start with. With Nikon, there is some compatibility between older and newer series, enough to build a system slowly like I have.

The other cameras I mentioned are pretty much at a dead end for the latest technology. That's not necessarily a bad thing, great pictures have been taken on all of them and they're so inexpensive (comparatively) that you'd probably get at least most of your money out of them if you decide to sell. Olympus discontinued all 35mm cameras last year or so and has a totally new digital system (big $, like all digital SLR's). Pentax has a newer system out too, kind of like what Canon did in the 80's - went to a completely new lens mount. Like I said, Nikon is somewhat compatible - same lens mount but some features work and some don't, depends on the specific camera and lens combination.

A very sharp lens for either brand would be their 50mm f1.8. They're a great bargain for under $100 brand new and among the sharpest lenses they make.

Feel free to send me an e-mail or private message if I can help.

[Mig]

I'll pick-up another view's Canon slack.

The Rebel 2000 is a fine camera and will do everything she needs it to for class - in fact that's the camera I started with and used for my first B&W class. It's light and fairly easy to learn - has auto modes for ease of use, but can also be fully adjusted manually. If you buy it as a kit, you'll probably get the 28-80 lens, which is fine, but I would scrap the extra range and buy the body only and then get the 50mm 1.8 that AV mentioned. And he's right about B&H - they have good deals and excellent service.

The manual cameras are great too, the K1000 is particularly easy to find - check eBay.

Good luck - let us know how you make out!

Danielle

[Liz]

I agree about the Rebel - excellent camera. I used this camera for about 3 years - it does everything on your list. Works auto & manual. Check out this link

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...=300535&is=USA

I also owned the 50mm/f1.8 - a great sharp beautiful lens with excellent price.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...=12142&is=GREY

or you could get the "kit" - check out B&H

Liz

Ah, yes, what a small world it is. I am in Roscoe and that shop, which you probably guessed right, is on perryville.

Thank you so much for your reply - any help with this is much appericated. I am going to look into the cameras that you suggested. In the mean time I have been doing a lot of research on the camera myself - any thoughts on a Canon rebel 2000? I can't tell if the aperture is what she needs. The lens doesn't seem to be ideal, but I figure that's something that can easily be expanded on in the future if she decides to stick with it.

[paulnj]

As you have been told in this thread.....

Whether you get a FULL MANUAL camera or ANY of todays AF cameras(nikon or canon would be my suggestion) you will have the camera you need.

While a MANUAL camera will be cheaper to buy, the AF camera(rebel TI for instance) will give you the capability of AF and POINT AND SHOOT along with aperture priority, shutter priority and even FULLY MANUAL EXPOSURE

Besides, after the class is over.... EVERYONE can use a {rebel 2000} in PROGRAM mode ...even a BEGINNER ;)

[FadderUri]

Let me speak up in defense of my beloved Canon AE1 and AE1-Programs. These cameras may be 20+ years old, but, parts and accessories are readily available for them, very inexpensive, and more importantly, when dealing with a teenager, very tough. They can be switched between auto exposure and manual just by turning the lens and shutter control off of the "A" setting.

If you look closely, you can find AE1 bodies for under $100, and lenses starting around $20. I've been taking pictures with mine for 20 years, and wouldn't trade it for nuttin'!!!!


Fadder Uri

[another view]

That whole thing about Lundgr... (oops, I mean the place on Perryville) is just wrong. There's probably a cheaper way to do it than this, but the Nikon N80 will do everything you need it to - and a lot more. Body only is probably a little over $300, and for $100 you can put a lens on it. That's half of what they told you.

The N80 does most of what the professional F100 and F5 does, just a little slower. It's also not built like a heavy duty pro camera, but it's got more than enough to keep a beginner going. You're not going to wear it out unless you're a photojournalist in Iraq. I've got a digital camera built on an N80 platform and it's been great. What did they want to give you for $800?

An older FE or FM will last forever too, and about the $100 range (plus lens). They were made from about 1977 to 1982-ish, but that basic platform is still around today (FM3a). Maybe they wanted to sell you a brand new FM3a - but that's still less than $800.

[JTurner538]

My two cents! I would definitely recomend the Rebel 2000. It has manual features and (when she's not in class and is feeling a little lazy) can be used in automode just like a point and shoot camera. For a standard class I'd go with the kit lens. It may not be as nice as the 50mm my fellow photographers have been mentioning but it has a zoom capability which will be important to a teenager. The 50mm is stuck at one view....no zooming in or out. I'm a senior in college so it hasn't been that long since i was in high school...trust me, for a high school class go with the standard zoom than comes with it. I recommend bhphotovideo.com as well. I'd be willing to bet money that they're cheaper than any local store. Overall, the rebel 2000 and lens will cost you less than $300 guaranteed. I'd go ahead and ear mark a little money for a case for it. Don't go to a camera shop for her first case...they'll sell you more than you need. Just get a case from wally world and tell your daughter to be careful. Good luck!
Justin

[Gohan]

Dear Occhio,

everybody gives you very proper and valuable advices about something like professional cameras. But remember - if your daughter is absolutely novice in photography, then she needs not SLR, but some cheap point and shoot camera. Just imagine, how a starter should begin to use very sophisticated camera as he don't know any general points about digital shooting. Point and shoot camera will give your daughter some unchangeable experience, that she will be able to use when buying SLR camera solo. She could be not satisfied of a purchase if you choose the camera without taking into account her wishes.
Eventually, consider a situation when a tender woman take an enormous camera in her hands and tries to go somewhere out. If the camera is not comfortable (professional cameras won"t be), your daughter will not enjoy shooting and the purchase will be useless.
Think about these some points, though it is only my opinion.

[opus]

Gohan, I think your advice is very good if you were to consider purchasing a camera for a friend to use on vacation or during holidays. But a photography class situation is quite different. The girl neeeds the more professional features because they will teach her how to use them. She would learn nothing if limited to a point and shoot.

The advice given is great. I think the only realy question you need to think about is which brand you want to commit to: Canon or Nikon or another. Once you get a certain brand, you're accessories and lenses will have to come from that manufacturer. So maybe find a store that has one of each of the cameras you're considering, a canon and a nikon, and take your daughter in and have her handle each. See which one feels most comfortable to her. She'll probably love her first camera and use it for a long time if you get one that's expandable.

[opus]

and I don't normally make so many spelling mistakes. I don't know what's wrong with me today.

Sorry!