Possibly OT, but need help regardless!

[fred.r]

Long story short, a buddy of mine and myself have started our own record label to put out LPs and EPs of bands we like. Anyways, we're in the middle of our first release and I was getting quotes for printing 4-color covers. Basically, the cost of the covers themselves looks like I could spend about the same or up to $100 more and get a good printer myself, and in turn save lots of money for future releases.
So, looking for a large format printer that's can print quality and quantity. Was looking at the Epson Stylus 1400 and other random printers that can be found on ebay and craigslist, but honestly I know ZERO about printers, so any help would be awesome. You can even just throw some model names out there if you want.

[Skyman]

whoa are you printing labels on cd's?. Part of the reason you shouldn't be using an inkjet as a rule of thumb is that depending on the quality of your cd player the disc can get a bit hot. this can cause the glue that hold the label onto the disc to come off in the player destroying the player and the disc.also injket technology works best with specially matched inks and papers, with lower grade surfaces such as printable discs and disc labelling paper you will have permanence issues. I use a primera bravo disc duplicating robot at work, it will burn a disc and print a label (you need to buy printable discs) and it works ok for the small output we have, but it burns the cd's rather than pressing them so it really isn't commercial grade and if not handled carefully the ink on the disc can run. prior to getting the primera I used a canon inkjet (again it prints directly to the printable disks) Its ink is cheaper (primera ink is hidously expensive) but I used to spend most of my day loading and unloading copies from my computer to the printer. With the primera I just load up a stack of discs and hit the go button. Also 4 colour printing acutally refers to an offset process which will give you better permanence on a disc and maintain its finish better in the long run. Offset printing is an art in itself but much of the cost is in the setting up of the jobs, so if you are only doing small runs this is why it costs so much. If you can get creative with your artwork you could try using duo tones which would mean a two colour process which is easier on the print set up and should be a bit cheaper. It really depends though on what your market will accept and how long you have. is a burnt disc ok or do the they need to be pressed (I don't know that you can get your disc pressed and finished with a printable surface and labels are a no go) if you can or if it doesn't matter then the inkjet option would be ok but slow, so depending on your volume you might be swapping discs in and out of the printer. not to mention the costs of the ink. The biggest run I have ever had to do was less than 500 of a three disc dvd. I estimated that using the duplicating machine I had a production cost of around $5 per disc (inlcuding the cases) we are not for profit and it was 6 hours worth of dvd so it didn't matter, but your margins really don't change with cd or dvd that much so to have a cost per disc of $5 for an EP won't leave much change on the table after they are sold. Unless you have the $$ for a commercial printing press and the time to learn how to use it, I suggest you have a chat to several local printers and find out who can do the best price with different printing methods / volumes etc. You might find that 4 colour offset is overkill.

[fred.r]

Printing record covers, as in vinyl. Printing CDs will not happen.
4 color for printing this, which is the rough draft we got together for the first 7in record cover.

[Skyman]

I am not sure what the process is for printing vinyl labels, but obviously the glue melting isn't going to be an issue. Cutting the circle might be challenging, but you should be able to make a template easy enough. do you fold your own sleaves? you could in theory print them on an ink jet but i think you might find the cost of ink and paper is quite high, especially if you are using photo papers (which is the only way to get good permanence in the print) have a chat to a couple of printers and see what they recommend for the volume then look at the cost of inks vs pages of full colour (which you would be doing) for an inkjet. I would recommend steering clear of refilling catridges, at the end of the day you are selling these discs you don't want people to get annoyed because the cover fades or runs.

[fred.r]

I am not sure what the process is for printing vinyl labels, but obviously the glue melting isn't going to be an issue. Cutting the circle might be challenging, but you should be able to make a template easy enough. do you fold your own sleaves? you could in theory print them on an ink jet but i think you might find the cost of ink and paper is quite high, especially if you are using photo papers (which is the only way to get good permanence in the print) have a chat to a couple of printers and see what they recommend for the volume then look at the cost of inks vs pages of full colour (which you would be doing) for an inkjet. I would recommend steering clear of refilling catridges, at the end of the day you are selling these discs you don't want people to get annoyed because the cover fades or runs.

Only printing the covers, the center sticker labels will be done during the pressing process so it'll be out of my hands. To give you an idea on the cost of the covers alone, it's roughly coming out to $1.10 per cover. So if I do a run of 300 records w/ covers, that's $330+ for the covers alone. 2-4 pressings alone I think would pay for the printer if I can find something around $400 with the cost per cover dropping 50%. Still doing the math but it'll eventually pay for itself, and since I just started playing with digital photography since I got my 30D it'll be necessary to own a good printer.

[freygr]

Only printing the covers, the center sticker labels will be done during the pressing process so it'll be out of my hands. To give you an idea on the cost of the covers alone, it's roughly coming out to $1.10 per cover. So if I do a run of 300 records w/ covers, that's $330+ for the covers alone. 2-4 pressings alone I think would pay for the printer if I can find something around $400 with the cost per cover dropping 50%. Still doing the math but it'll eventually pay for itself, and since I just started playing with digital photography since I got my 30D it'll be necessary to own a good printer.

First do you know the cost of the ink! The cost of the larger printers also are not the less costly versions either.

Now if you printing CD box cover inserts you get two per sheet and if you can use plane paper and get the results then it will be much cheaper than $1.10 per cover. But if you are printing for vinyl LPs then it out the window. I calculated once that a letter sized image cost about $1.00 of ink (Epson R-2400) or about $.75 on a Epson C-8X printer, both using factory ink (light fast) in both printers.

At the prices you are quoting it would be overall cheaper to have the print shop print them. You have to purchase a printer, ink, and paper; then set up and print samples, then produce the covers and assemble the product. Note the cover will take about 2-3 minutes just to print each cover, as inkjet printers are not fast. Note color laser printers are faster but the cost of the ink is much more costly than inkjets but the toner cartridges do last longer. But laser printers have a different look and feel.

The other thing about inks, is the fading. Using non-factory inks can give you major color balance problems and fast fading. The printers which use fad resistance inks are more costly to purchase and run.

[fred.r]

Thanks for all the input. From what it sounds like, outsourcing the covers seems like a better plan. Seems like what I'd need is an industrial type printer for architects and the like, meaning unless I plan on printing over 10,000 covers plus, I'll see no gain; and I doubt I'll ever get to that level of releases being a DIY punk label. Limiting the bands to 2-3 color in the future will have a decent price drop, so maybe I'll just stick to that.
Thanks again.