Flash HELP!

[JKeena]

Alright, I'm getting really mad now! I've been shooting sports for a long time now and never had this problem until I bought a Vivitar 283 and Sto-fen diffuser. All I've been getting back from the lab are black slides with hints of flourescent ceiling lights! Lately I'm usually shooting at 1/125 sec and f22 (according to what the vivitar tells me to do at 3-5 feet). Obviously something is wrong and I've been doing alot of testing but I'm running out of money here! I work 8 hours a week!! SO, can anyone tell me what I'm doing wrong? I got a couple of shots where I got a hint of a rider in the frame. I think I shot at f11 on those. So should my f stop be way more open? And if so, how do I know exactly how open when the flash is saying [5ft /f22]? This is getting VERY FRUSTRATING because I've been shooting some nuts good guys and they are psyched to do it for a camera but they want results and I got nothing to show. PLEASE HELP! If I get one more dark roll of flourescent lights I think I'm going to.. I don't even know! Anyway, thanks for any help you can offer. -Justin

[dsl712]

I'm just joking with my title but it is also true. What are the lighting conditions you are shooting in? You mention flourescent lights, so I am assuming you are indoors. Also, are the athletes really only 3 - 5 ft from you? What ISO?

I don't use a Vivtar but, from what I can tell 125th at F22 is way to closed down for most indoor shooting. If the film is really that dark open up to 5.6 or even 4.0. Also consider slowing down your shutter speed to allow for more ambient light. Increase the ISO of the film you are shooting.

Dennis

[Asylum Steve]

Justin,

I realize I haven't had my coffee yet today, but I get the strongest sense of DEJA VU reading this.

Didn't you already post this and get some replies? If so, when you ask again you should at least reword your post so it doesn't make folks think they're crazy. I face an uphill battle as it is...

Well, first off, I can tell you that f/22 for the flash exposure cannot be right. If it was, you'd at least see your rider lit by the flash. How did you arrive at this number? Oh, and what ISO film and lens are you using?

Keep in mind any flash setting you use in auto or by using the flash's guide number would be for a DIRECT flash, not a DIFFUSED flash. Diffusing the flash with the Sto-fen will mean much less light is hitting your subject, and you need to compensate by opening up the lens.

Aside from the flash, what is your available light? F/22 at 1/125th would be the normal exposure (ISO 100) for a partly sunny or brightly overcast day. If your scene is much darker than this, then common sense would tell you that those setting would underexpose your film by a lot.

You mention flourescent ceiling lights, so I assume this is indoors and those are your room light. I also assume you want to use those lights for your bg, and freeze the rider with the flash. Am I correct? If so, why don't you just want to use direct flash?

Anyway, when using a combination of available (and when I say that I mean room bg light also) and flash lighting, you first figure out the f-stop for the flash. If don't have a flash meter (the best way), with the 283 (I have one also) in auto mode, make sure the ISO is set right on the side dial. Then choose the f-stop that gives the depth of field and/or flash range you want. Note the color and set the sensor to this color.

Using THAT f-stop, meter the available light and set your shutter speed for the proper exposure (IOW what it would be WITHOUT the flash). Some like to underexpose the bg just a bit for a more dramtic effect. Like I said, f/22 and 1/125 seems like it would underexpose room light, even bright flourescent ones. You can't just set the camera at sync. Sometime you need to use a much slower shutter speed. If you're afraid of bg motion (actaully, that sort of thing looks good in an action shot), make sure you're using a tripod.

So now, your exposure should be correct for both the flash and the bg light.

BTW, I'm NOT trying to talk down to you about your flash and camera. You may know all of this already, but obviously you're not getting the correct results, so I just wanted to go over it again. If there's just one thing you're missing, it might be enough to screw up the shots.

Last but not least: why didn't you bracket your shots???? You were shooting stopped all the way down at f/22. Why woundn't you shoot some at one stop over, some at two stops over, some at three stops over, etc. That's pretty SOP when shooting tricky lighty situations with subjects that you NEED to get results with. I would have shot a whole range of f-stops and shutter speeds...

So, give me some more information about your film and lens, as well as what you think about what I've already told you, and we can talk about it more...

Alright, I'm getting really mad now! I've been shooting sports for a long time now and never had this problem until I bought a Vivitar 283 and Sto-fen diffuser. All I've been getting back from the lab are black slides with hints of flourescent ceiling lights! Lately I'm usually shooting at 1/125 sec and f22 (according to what the vivitar tells me to do at 3-5 feet). Obviously something is wrong and I've been doing alot of testing but I'm running out of money here! I work 8 hours a week!! SO, can anyone tell me what I'm doing wrong? I got a couple of shots where I got a hint of a rider in the frame. I think I shot at f11 on those. So should my f stop be way more open? And if so, how do I know exactly how open when the flash is saying [5ft /f22]? This is getting VERY FRUSTRATING because I've been shooting some nuts good guys and they are psyched to do it for a camera but they want results and I got nothing to show. PLEASE HELP! If I get one more dark roll of flourescent lights I think I'm going to.. I don't even know! Anyway, thanks for any help you can offer. -Justin

[JKeena]

So, give me some more information about your film and lens, as well as what you think about what I've already told you, and we can talk about it more...[/QUOTE]


Alright! Thanks for all the help. I really appreciate it. I'm using a Canon 35-20mm lens on 20mm. Provia 100 is the film and I'm shooting indoors at a skatepark and a warehouse (high ceilings, 20-30 feet). The color settings on the 283 only go to purple as the closest one, which it says is f11 at 10 ft. Because it's the 20mm lens I'm shooting really close (5 feet away) from the subject at times and I don't want to blow out their skin. The 283 doesn't give me a color setting for any closer than 10 ft. Thats the big problem. I assumed it didn't because any closer than 10ft would blow out the subject, thus my justification for the diffuser. Also, I was getting a flash fall off LINE with my old flash and I wanted to prevent that when I bought the 283. I realize f22 is now too small, bu t at the time I just went with it because the 283 said so (even though there is no color for it). Another sports photog also recomended the diffuser for close 15mm to 20mm lens shots when the camera is RIGHT THERE next to the subject. Anyhow, lets roll with that info on the table. Thanks Steve! - Justin
PS. I'm going snowboarding in VT until Sunday so don't feel ignored if I don't reply until then!

[JKeena]

Ok. I've got a plan. The vivitar 283 says f11 at 10ft. SO, I'll put it on the Purple setting and shoot nothing smaller than f11 (Meaning I will shoot f11, f8,). This should be a giant step in the right direction. BY MY LOGIC... If I am closer than 10 ft on this setting, skin might be blown out, but I will try it without the diffuser anway, just to see it. Then I will try it with the diffuser and open up MORE (f5.6). I will then meter for the BG light at whatever f-stop I choose and get my shutterspeed (sub question: If my sync speed is 1/125, does that mean the action will be captured at 1/125? I know there will be a blur effect) . Hopefully I know what I'm talking about this time around and will get some good pics . I guess I was used to shooting fast shutter speeds because I usually shoot at outdoor spots, so thanks for all the help! -Justin