Macro photography for a noob

[j0rdanisme]

Hey guys,
So I suppose what I am trying to shoot would be considered macro photography. Simply put I want incredibly high detailed photos of bikes. Meaning welds, seams, cracks, bearings, dirt, anything and everything i want to be able to break it down into delicious looking photos, HOWEVER, this is my problem.

Shooting with our new 7D, and kit lens.

I cant seem to pull nearly enough detail. I look at this image and the detail level is incredible, even on the Jpeg from Facebook!

http://www.flickr.com/photos/shedfir...7623316633297/
Shot by: Nigel at Chain Reaction Cycle

then I look at this image, the one I shot, and the detail level is no where even close.


ISO 100, f/18, 0.8 sec

I understand that shooting a black bike on a white blackdrop is a little silly, however, that still shouldn't effect the overall detail should it?

Could it be the kit lens were using? I am stumped as to how I can get immense amounts of detail like those shots! Any help is great.
Cheers!

[Iguanamom]

I'm not an expert, but the first thing I notice is the lighting. the first shot is incredibly well lit. the second, not so much. In order to show detail we first have to be able to see it.

[SmartWombat]

Well for a start they are totally different subjects, with different lighting.

What you're doing is not macro (yet) it's only close-up.
But whenever you're working close you need a lot of light, and a small aperture to get so much in focus. I think f/18 is probably as far as you can go on a kit lens, but try f/22 or f/32 and see if it gets sharper or softer.

Your white bike with a smooth painted finish has almost no detail compared to the raw allow welded frame in the first photo.
Is the frame dipped and coated?
That would explain why there's no weld detail by the words bresse valnord on the frame.

Yes, the lens can make a great difference.
But unless you know what camera and lens they used, it won't help much.
I don't even know which kit lens you're using, that doesn't help either.

You're comparing apples and oranges here, and I think the result is bananas

[Photo-John]

Jordan-
Is that first photo someone else's? We have few rules here but one is to not post other people's photos. Links to other people's photos are ok. But please only post your own work on the site. It's because this is a serious photography site so we want to be extra respectful about photo ownership. If that is not your photo, please edit your post so it just links to it. Thanks

Ok, to answer your question...

First of all, it's difficult because the photos are so different. The example you're comparing to is very matte with much softer lighting. Your photo is of all glossy, painted surfaces and it looks like the light is a lot less diffused and more direct. In order to better practice and compare, you need similar subjects.

However, I can still make some educated guesses.

1) - Depth-of-field. It looks like maybe you need to stop down a bit to get more depth-of-field. Do you know what your aperture and focal length were with this image? And what is the lens you're using?

2) Lighting - softer lighting will decrease contrast and give you more fine detail.

3) Processing - it looks like you might be able to do better post-processing, too. There's usually a lot of detail to be had in an image if you process it right - especially in the shadows. Sharpening is also important. If you resize - you must sharpen. Every time you resize you lose detail. Unsharp mask helps bring that detail back.

My advice is to practice with some simple subjects. The photo you've shared is a tough one to judge because - as you said - it's black on black. How about just taking a few pictures of a colored, anodized frame with a white background. See if you can get closer to the sample photo. It will be a lot easier to judge if you shoot with a white background and a bike that isn't so glossy.

[OldClicker]

For my macros (I do bugs, water drops, etc.), I found the most important thing for sharpness is to keep everything perfectly still. I can 'see' the vibration from my furnace fan when shooting on a solid table on a cement floor in my basement.

- Good rock steady tripod
- Rock steady subject
- Timer or remote shutter release
- Mirror lock up
- Find what the 'native' ISO is for the 7D and use it (guessing 200)
- Try the lens at different f/stops to find the sweet spot (probably f/8 - f/11).
- Light - I don't know how to light things this big, but the black backdrop has to be soaking up a lot. Others will chime in, I'm sure. As a starter, read this:

Product and Bicycle Photography

TF

[SmartWombat]

Another thought on the lens, to get seemingly impossible areas in focus they could have used a tilt/shift lens like the Canon TS-E 45mm (or perspective control lens I think Nikon call them).

Over $1300 list for 45mm (more for wide angle) but would be able to get the whole frame in focus, at an angle that would make an ordinary lens struggle to get half of it in focus.

[SmartWombat]

Canon native ISO is 100, Nikon is 200.
So definitely shoot at 100, or even 50iso if you can get enough light.

[j0rdanisme]

Ok, to answer a few comments/questions. First off John I have fixed the link and added credit, apologies about that.

I totally get about it being painted/clear coated effecting the overall appearance. I will try to shoot something more "bland" so to say to see if its any better.

The lens is a standard 18-35mm. The settings are under the image, but to skip you scrolling up it was shot at F/18.

I think what it is is the lack of "weak" light. We have 2 hot boxes basically shining directly on the subject, im thinking about just bouncing more light onto the subject to get soft lighting on it. Is it possible to double up scrim cloth, or step down the power to get softer light? (via a potentiometer)

The other thing I am going to try very soon is back lighting. Getting ring light on black/black would make the edge pop for sure.

We do use the self timer. We have tried triggers as well but the 7D has a 2 second timer that makes it easy. Using a good Manfrotto tripod so the camera is stable, thats fo sho.

I think my main issue is I am constantly shooting well finished products under hard light, basically killing all the details.

[Photo-John]

I can't tell from the image. But are you sure it's sharp? If it isn't, you can always move back or zoom out and then crop. Either way, it's going to give you more depth-of-field and more of the bike will be sharp.

How much do you move your lights around? Do you have any reflectors? For this bike, you could soften the light considerably and get a bit of backlighting by simply moving the lights way over to the sides of the subject. That would soften the light where you're actually shooting a ton. And if you need a bit more fill, a reflector in front of the bike would do the job. You might even be able to use a big piece of foam core lying on the floor. Or tilt it up and down until you get the fill you need.