Enlargement size advice needed.

[mn shutterbug]

I just got accepted into a juried arts and craft show for next month. I'll be bringing hundreds of my notecards. I'm also going to display an enlargement of a loon and an eagle on easels and offer them for sale by orders. I was going to order 16 X 24 enlargements but then realized that your standard frames are 16 X 20. If the customer was going to frame them, this could be a problem? What size would you, who have sold prints, order?

[Frog]

I had a 18-24 printed for my wife...cost about 10-12 bucks. The pic sent in was cropped seriously at the top so it was centered with black surrounding. The custom framing and matting cost me 160..lol. So if you want customers able to frame wuthout spending a fortune go with a standard frame size.
Some pics do look better in different sizes though. So, since you are taking orders, you could tell them that if what they want isn't standard frame size, it might cost them a bit to have them framed.

[mn shutterbug]

That's good advice. I could also let them know that I could have it printed a standard size. I checked and I do have enough room to be able to crop them to a standard size.

[mjs1973]

Hey Mike,

Congrats on being accepted into the juried art show/fair. I'm doing my first juried art fair this fall. Are you planning on having your print matted? Also, are you going to limit your prints? The reason I ask that last part is because the art fair I'm doing this fall requires that all pieces be limited editions. It was a pain in the butt to go back and figure out what I had already sold last year so I know how many I have left to sell. My record keeping skills are lacking.

I have had some luck selling enlarged prints over the last year, and this is what I have found. If the print is good, and people really like it, they will buy it. It doesn't really matter what the size is. I have sold a couple of odd sized panos, one about 17x30 and the other about 8x20. I had them matted, but not framed. The customer will have to find someone to frame it for them. Granted, those two are exceptions, and most of my prints are standard sizes.

The biggest reason I go with standard sized prints is so I can find pre-cut mattes for them. Both B&H and Adorama have a nice selection of pre-cut mattes. That is what I use, with the exception of the odd sizes like the panos that I have custom cut at a couple local shops.

Almost all of the pre-cut mattes I get, come in a standard size. For example, if I have a 5x7 print, the matte is 8x10, if I have an 8x10 print, the matte is 11x14, and 11x14 print, the matte is 16x20. These are all pretty standard sized frames, and the customer shouldn't have a problem finding a frame to put them in. About the only "odd" size print that I sell, besides the panos, is an 8x12. If I can't crop a 5x7 or an 8x10 out of a photo without cutting something off that will ruin the photo, I print it as an 8x12. This keeps the same aspect ratio so I don't have to crop anything. B&H and Adorama both have a small selection of pre-cut mattes in this size, and the overall size of the matte is 12x16. That seems to be a bit of an odd size, but again, if the customer likes the print enough, they don't seem to mind the odd size.

In fact, I'm off to matte 4 8x12 prints now for a customer. She had picked 4 photos she found on my cards and wanted enlarged for a gift for someone. I asked her what size she wanted and she said 8x10. I explained to her that I would have to crop a little off of each image, and that I would email her the "proofs" of how they would look cropped to fit an 8x10. It would have been easy to do and not a big deal at all. She said don't bother, just make them 8x12s. So that's what she's getting.

[fx101]

With the exception of 8x12 which is the more common of the odd sizes, it's really hard to get frame/matte combos for the odd mid-size enlargements. Of further issue is the fact that these will be sold unframed so the customer frames them. I can get away with odd sizes if I sell prints face mounted to acrylic, but not unframed. I would suggest printing 8x10's, 16x20 (you can print 16x24 with a white border and cut that off) and maybe a larger size if it's a stitched pano or you're shooting film.

[brmill26]

I realize this is a big jump in size, but if you weren't going for matting, 20x30 seems to be the only common large size that retains the 2:3 aspect ratio. I know there's a decent selection of frames in this size (at good prices) at several Walmarts. Just another option...

[Anbesol]

Well custom framing is ultra-expensive, custom matting isn't that bad, and you can always customize a matte to fit in a standard sized frame... Still more money though.

[mjs1973]

Well custom framing is ultra-expensive, custom matting isn't that bad, and you can always customize a matte to fit in a standard sized frame... Still more money though.

I have done this in the past for personal use. I don't remember the size of the print, or the frame off the top of my head. I ended up having about 4" of matte around the entire photo in order to get it to fit in a standard frame. I wasn't a big fan of the way it turned out, but it was much less expensive than having it custom framed.

I still have the photo in the matte, but the frame fell off the wall and broke.

[mn shutterbug]

Thanks for all the advice.

Mike, I'm still considering matting them. I suppose they would look better on the easels, if they were matted. I will order them on double weight matboard. You must be setting up at a pretty high end art show if they insist on limited editions. Congrats on getting in and I wish you the best.

I do a fair amount of business with Adorama. However, I couldn't find mattes on their site. Can you provide a link to the matte page?

[mjs1973]

Here is a link to Adorama's mattes.

http://www.adorama.com/catalog.tpl?o...ries&cat3=Mats

Are you ordering your prints from Mpix? If so, I wouldn't order them on the matte board if you are planning on matting them. If you order an 8x10 print on the matte board, your matte board is only going to be 8x10 as well. There isn't any place to attach an actual matte to the photo for framing. You could get around this by centering your 8x10 photo on an 11x14 canvas in Photoshop, then ordering an 11x14 print. That way you will have room around your photo to attach a matte to. Of course then you have to pay for an 11x14 print, but you're only getting an 8x10.

If you just want your photos to stand up nicely on the easels without being matted, then I think ordering them on the matte board is a great idea. The Stand Outs from Mpix look like a great product for this type of display too.

[photophorous]

There are a lot of 18x24 frames available, which work well for 12x18 prints. A 20x30 frame works well for a 16x24 print. And if you search around, you can find 12x16 frames for 8x12 prints. You will probably have to pay someone to cut the mats or do it yourself. A mat cutter is a good thing to invest in anyway. I shoot 35mm and I almost always compose full-frame, so I hate to crop my photos.

Paul

[mn shutterbug]

Are you ordering your prints from Mpix? If so, I wouldn't order them on the matte board if you are planning on matting them. If you order an 8x10 print on the matte board, your matte board is only going to be 8x10 as well. There isn't any place to attach an actual matte to the photo for framing. You could get around this by centering your 8x10 photo on an 11x14 canvas in Photoshop, then ordering an 11x14 print. That way you will have room around your photo to attach a matte to. Of course then you have to pay for an 11x14 print, but you're only getting an 8x10.

I just realized that. Your idea of adding canvas makes sense. However, I'm going to check into WHCC's printing services. Most of the photographers on a Minnesota based forum, swear by them.

[mjs1973]

I have heard great things about WHCC, but have never tried them myself.

[another view]

I would have a really hard time cropping a 16x24 into a 16x20 just to make framing easier. If I made a print that big, there would be a reason for it - in other words, it would be pretty important to me; the whole shot as it is would be worthy. You'd lose something (literally and figuratively) by cropping.

I have a couple 16x24's here that I put in 22x32 Neilsen frames, and I like the proportions. They're about 1/2" higher than dead center which tends to look better and more balanced to my eyes than actually being centered. Photo-John turned me onto American Frame, and I bought a slightly larger frame profile just so it wouldn't look tiny. I bought single-strength window glass cut to size at a local shop (not craft store, huge price difference). I did have the mats cut to size at a craft store. This wasn't too expensive (been a couple years, don't remember how much) and I think they look great. If I do any more this size, I'll keep the proportions. I also like 8x12 in 14x18 frames, for example.

However - I also understand that if you sell a 16x24 print that hasn't been framed, there is no telling what the new owner of the print will do. They may just end up turning it into a 16x20...

[mn shutterbug]

I have decided to go with the 16 X 24's. They do look much better that way. Also, if someone orders one that size, I can direct them to a site where they can get a metal frame and mat for just $26, with oak being about twice that price.

[freygr]

Just remember if you mat you will have to take into account how much the mat will add to the print size. Example an 8 by 10 print will mat up to 11 by 13 but the mat will be cut to fit a standard sized 11 by 14 inch frame. So matting will add 3 to 4 inches to the overall size for framing. You can purchase metal frames in even two inch increments online or at your local craft store.

Personal I build my own wooden frames, and cut my own mats, so the real cost is the time and the glass. (I have not checked on the cost of glass in over a year).