Contemplating a plunge

[Dzerzhinski46]

Dear All,

I am contemplating diving into large format photography. Any suggestions as to size (4x5, 2.25x3.25, etc) and camera choices?

Dzerzhinski

[92135011]

man...do you really wanna pay the price for film?
That stuff is crazy expensive!
Unless you make some super large prints, it may be better to stick with your MF

[another view]

Ooh, you too! 4x5, no question about it. The film is the most readily available of any sheet film size, and you can use ready-loads if you want. Also, there are a ton of choices for cameras and lenses too.

I've only shot large format once, but it's a completely different experience. Each shot takes a fair amount of time to set up, so aside from the cost of the film and processing, you won't want to go thru the effort of setting up and shooting a Polaroid in conditions that aren't right for a shot that you don't have high hopes for. Because of all of this, you think more about what you're doing. That and the perspective control are the two big advantages that I see.

It's not something I'll probably get into real soon but it's always been a fascination. Nothing like 4x5 chromes on a light table!

[PhotoGimp]

I myself have been contemplating going to medium format for macro and portraits. Go to your local(small independently owned) camera shops, they may have some used stuff that they will let you try out for a day, and that way you can get a feel for it, and decide which you would like better. even better, when I rent something used for a day, if i end up buying it, the cost of the rental is taken off the purchase price.

[SmartWombat]

Found these poeple, I have no idea how good/bad they are.
A ukraninan company selling through a US card processing agency?
http://www.dvdtechcameras.com/cameras/mfcam/medium.htm

[Dzerzhinski46]

man...do you really wanna pay the price for film?
That stuff is crazy expensive!
Unless you make some super large prints, it may be better to stick with your MF

You are right. It does cost about $1.25 to $2 per sheet of film, but think of the advantages. A humungous negative , you don't even need to enlarge it. And, like another view said, you take more time making the picture, so you don't have the wastage (at least theoretically) of 35mm photography. Taking more care during the exposure process means a higher percentage of your photos will come out like you wanted them too. At least that is how I see it.

PhotoGimp, SmartWombat, I mean LARGE format , like 4x5, not 120 or 220. If you knew this already then sorry for the redundancy. Thank you for the replys everyone, keep them coming.

Dzerzhinski

[92135011]

I guess it depends what you wanna do too

With large format, only landscape or portrait are real options. I hardly think that you will set up a big ol camera in the middle of the sidewalk and wait for an oppurtunity. Plus they are heavy and just a PITA to carry around. I guess if you really dig landscape and portrait stuff then it would be great. For me, I would only go up to MF, since I like to grab and go.

Get a bubble level too if you dont have one on your tripod already. Would hate to waste money on a shot that is as little as 0.5 degree crooked.

[drg]

Buy a really heavy tripod. Or at least one that you can pile heavy stuff on the leg braces.

I love shooting with my old Horseman and theres a Sinar system for work, but they get very little use right now.

Should you get into this very seriously, you'll probably want to review your Zone system manuals and purchase a good meter (preferably a 1 to1.5 degree spot capable).

Find a store that you can go in and put your hands on the various types of systems. These are truly system cameras. You've got bellows and rails, theres the film carriers (I've a real strange Horseman roll adapter that you can spend serious bucks filling with film for the 4x5 format) the dark slide, the focusing screens, lens boards and then there are lenses. The lenses are a multi day discussion about types of shutters and manufacturers and eras and so on. This is just to get ready for making photo one! It is a load of fun.

If you've not developed sheet film you have to be extra vigilant not to scratch the film in the tray. There were manufactuers years ago who made these carrier/developer film holders that could go from camera to darkroom. Of course trays work, and see if you can find silicone covered tongs. There chemically pretty neutral and soft.

Stainless steel tracking and gears on the bellows are the best bet. Theres even a partial wood system from Toho (?) that seems O.K. but I've only heard reports.

If you shoot classic B/W the lens/shutters can be older (and some are phenomenal) and don't require CA coating, but do hood the lens. I spent a lot of money once upon time just finding out how lens flare wasn't working for a subject.

Best of luck and let us know where you are in the process.

Oh, there's quite a few polaroid backs on the market too. There are some that make use of the 600/Spectra type films that can be invaluable for checking focus and such.

-CDP Dr G

[another view]

With large format, only landscape or portrait are real options.

I'm thinking about a 4x5 (at some point) more for studio work (products, etc) and architecture. The perspective control is a huge advantage for this kind of work. Probably do some landscape and portraits with it too at some point, but not the main reasoning behind it.

Agree that a Polaroid back is almost a requirement - a friend who shoots LF said to shoot Polaroids only first just to get used to using the camera.

[Dzerzhinski46]

Buy a really heavy tripod. Or at least one that you can pile heavy stuff on the leg braces.

I love shooting with my old Horseman and theres a Sinar system for work, but they get very little use right now.

Should you get into this very seriously, you'll probably want to review your Zone system manuals and purchase a good meter (preferably a 1 to1.5 degree spot capable).

Find a store that you can go in and put your hands on the various types of systems. These are truly system cameras. You've got bellows and rails, theres the film carriers (I've a real strange Horseman roll adapter that you can spend serious bucks filling with film for the 4x5 format) the dark slide, the focusing screens, lens boards and then there are lenses. The lenses are a multi day discussion about types of shutters and manufacturers and eras and so on. This is just to get ready for making photo one! It is a load of fun.

If you've not developed sheet film you have to be extra vigilant not to scratch the film in the tray. There were manufactuers years ago who made these carrier/developer film holders that could go from camera to darkroom. Of course trays work, and see if you can find silicone covered tongs. There chemically pretty neutral and soft.

Stainless steel tracking and gears on the bellows are the best bet. Theres even a partial wood system from Toho (?) that seems O.K. but I've only heard reports.

If you shoot classic B/W the lens/shutters can be older (and some are phenomenal) and don't require CA coating, but do hood the lens. I spent a lot of money once upon time just finding out how lens flare wasn't working for a subject.

Best of luck and let us know where you are in the process.

Oh, there's quite a few polaroid backs on the market too. There are some that make use of the 600/Spectra type films that can be invaluable for checking focus and such.

-CDP Dr G

Thanks for the pointers drg. I haven't really encountered the Zone system before, and am only vaugely aware that it is some fantastic method for printing . As to a meter, when/if I do go into LF, I would almost certainly get a meter. Sunny 16 is alright for other stuff, but not this I am sure. You probably can tell I am not even to the thinking about buying stage, so I am just kind of thrashing about. I have been poking around and have heard a lot about the Crown and Speed Graphics (mostly good). They say that these models are really great for entry level LF, but without the exstensive movements available with other cameras. And as they are significantly cheaper than other LF cameras ($150 on ebay in working condition), it seems like a good option.I know, however, that I won't be able to handle the camera before I buy it, if/when I do. But, as most LF I have found are on the order of $800 and up, I am looking for a budget/entry level option. Any thoughts on Crown/Speed Graphics? I know that they take most film backs, even the Polaroid ones too (especially the 545). And I think that I would rather start out simple, not with all the movements and options available. Thank you again for all the great responses. Any more thoughts on this would be very welcome.

Dzerzhinski

[Dzerzhinski46]

Dear All,

I decided to post to this one because it already is concerned with LF, so this is just an extention of the discussion. Mostly at this point, most things have been sorted out. 4x5 definately. The one hitch I have is, of course, money. New or used is also part of the money thing in a way. I am straped for cash so to speak. I am torn between used (Crown Graphic, or something under $500) and new (Holy Cow!!!!! you mean LF doesn't come under $600?!?!?!?). Brands I have good things about are Graflex (used obviously), Shen Hao, Bender, and Toyo. Anything under $1000. So, you can see my dilema. LF on the cheap. Any helpful suggestions would be, um, helpful.

Dzerzhinski

[92135011]

I would definately buy used
dont know much about LF stuff because I've never used it.

Just use the normal check list.
Clear lens, no hazing, coating scratches or fungus. focus and that is buttery smooth and in working order. All apertures are intact.
Shutter speeds...dont really know how you gonna check that...good luck though.
The rest really doesnt matter all that much.
Of course no leaking light

[another view]

Have you made the choice between a View (monorail) camera and a Field camera? A field camera will be much more portable - 4x5's usually fold up to about 6-8" square and 3" thick - but they won't have as many adjustments as a monorail type. However, a monorail fits into a large trunk so it's not really the thing to take backpacking . Some field cameras have more adjustment than others, and there are some good deals on used cameras.

I'm looking for a field camera, and the other day a Zone VI 4x5 field camera in really nice shape went for under $600. I got stage-fright I guess, but that was a good buy. Toyo has a fairly inexpensive (about $650) new camera, think it's the 45CF. That would be one to check out as well. Of course, there's lenses, lens boards, film holders/polaroid backs and other stuff you may already have (sturdy tripod, spot meter, cable release).

If you're looking for a monorail View camera (probably better for studio or architecture work) then there are some bargain kits you'll find on ebay - and Calumet has a starter package for not much more than that new.

[Dzerzhinski46]

Have you made the choice between a View (monorail) camera and a Field camera? A field camera will be much more portable - 4x5's usually fold up to about 6-8" square and 3" thick - but they won't have as many adjustments as a monorail type. However, a monorail fits into a large trunk so it's not really the thing to take backpacking . Some field cameras have more adjustment than others, and there are some good deals on used cameras.

I'm looking for a field camera, and the other day a Zone VI 4x5 field camera in really nice shape went for under $600. I got stage-fright I guess, but that was a good buy. Toyo has a fairly inexpensive (about $650) new camera, think it's the 45CF. That would be one to check out as well. Of course, there's lenses, lens boards, film holders/polaroid backs and other stuff you may already have (sturdy tripod, spot meter, cable release).

If you're looking for a monorail View camera (probably better for studio or architecture work) then there are some bargain kits you'll find on ebay - and Calumet has a starter package for not much more than that new.

Definately Field camera. I would not be bothered (I think) by the lack of movements, because I have never handled LF movements before, so I wouldn't know what I was missing . Also I want to be able to lug it around without too much stress.

I know that this is probably a little annoying of me but, are the Graphic cameras really not suitable for LF? Just curious, and they happen to be very cheap and in good condition on Ebay. Just wondering.

Dzerzhinski

[another view]

I know that this is probably a little annoying of me but, are the Graphic cameras really not suitable for LF? Just curious, and they happen to be very cheap and in good condition on Ebay. Just wondering.

Not annoying, that's what Help is for! Some field cameras have more movements than others. How much you need and how much (or little) bellows extension you need will depend on what you want to do with it. With architectural photography, you'll want something that you can get a bag bellows for so you can use really wide lenses like a 65 (those aren't cheap). You'll also need more movements than most landscape photographers. I'm not an expert on this stuff but this book is kind of the LF bible.

From what I know about Speed Graphic press cameras etc. cameras, they can be a good start but are very limited in adjustments. You'll still get those huge chromes and negs and the feel of working with LF which is a very different experience. Make sure the bellows is good though.

[mdmc]

http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/4x5.htm

Heres some info I think might be helpfull.
Also, I was wondering if you had given any consideration to the pentax 6x7 system?
I recall reading in shutterbug mag that images are "indistinguishable from 4x5".
That was in late 1992.
But if you want movements you gotta do what you gotta do.
Mark.