Keep my old film SLR around for B&W?

[flyinion]

So I haven't used my old film SLR in probably about 10 years now. I still have it laying around and with my switch to a Canon XSi in 2009 I actually have a 2nd lens I can actually use on it now. The camera is a Canon 1000f/n which was a 1994ish model that I bought in Hong Kong while on deployment with the Navy. From what I can tell, it's the European version of Rebel SII Canon Camera Museum | Camera Hall - Film Cameras

I've thought about playing around with B&W film with it. I've never actually shot B&W film but I know the film is still made. I guess my concern is, is the camera worth using for that? I have the 35-80mm kit lens it came with and also the 75-300mm f/4-5.6 (the one that is under $200 usually) that could be used with it.

The other concern is......developing the film. I don't think I want to try to learn it myself (if the stuff to do it is even sold for home use anymore) but knowing film still exists there must be a good place besides the local Walgreen's/random drugstore to have it developed at? What do you guys think?

[Franglais]

You can try buying a roll of film and getting it developed at the drugstore but I think you'll be disappointed. The drugstore will send it to a lab who will put it in a standard soup and print it on a standard paper in an automatic machine and the result will be - average.

To get the full beauty of classical black-and-white film:

1. Each type of black-and-white film is different. You need to choose the right developer and develop the film for the right time to get the effect that you want
2. You need to use a paper that is the right grade (contrast) to suit your film and subject contrast or else use multigrade paper with the filter to get the right grade
3. Often when doing black and white you adjust the image by making areas darker or lighter so that the print matches your vision. This means using your hands or a wand to mask parts of the image during exposure

At the end you have a print which is made by hand and unique. And perhaps not quite right. I often wind up doing several prints before getting the right one.

I did that for years. To be quite honest - nowadays I do all that and get better results shooting RAW with a DSLR and Lightroom + Photoshop and an excellent printer. I realise now that in film days I was printing too soft and never getting maximum blacks. More control in a digital darkroom.

[flyinion]

Yeah I've definitely played with B&W in Photoshop such as the attached picture which was just kind of a quick edit. I guess I just thought it might be "fun" to find a use for the "relic" since I know I can't really sell it for anything and it seems like a waste just to toss it.

I did some searching and found there is a shop here which develops though the reviews sound like it's not the greatest place. There is another large but "mom & pop" style shop that supposedly sends their stuff out. I want to stop there to look at some lenses so maybe I'll talk with them about it.

I guess it sounds like my real option though is just learn to develop it myself. Or maybe scan the developed photos and tweak them in Photoshop but that seems kind of silly.

[Franglais]

Learn how to develop and print black-and-white film if you want pictures that have the black-and-white film look, not because you have an old camera (I have lots). This means having a little grain, acutance, brilliant highlights that don't burn out - things that are difficult to achieve with a digital camera. There are lots of pro labs around here that still do black-and-white film - but they are very expensive;

By "scanning the developed photos" I hope you mean scanning the negatives. I have done thousands but I find it's not a good idea. The grain just gets in the way. When you work in the digital darkroom you often want to do things like sharpening the image and it's much better to start with a nice clean image from a DSLR that has only subject data and not masses of grain.

Just to give you an idea of what's possible, taking your photo as an example:

- the bottom half of the photo is too dark. You have some interesting detail like the tyres of the 4x4 which would add to the raunchy look of the photo and it's lost in a black mass. You should hold back (lighten) the bottom half, especially the tyres
- the sky is interesting but there's a big empty white patch above the car. If you used a red filter you would increase the contrast in the clouds. You can also burn in (darken) the top quarter of the image
- In film you can't do anything about the electricity pylon growing out of the top of the car and the electric wires in the distance. In Photoshop you can
- don't overdo the modifications. It must look natural

[flyinion]

Thanks. I'll maybe add learning to develop B&W film on the list of stuff to see about learning down the road a bit. I'll talk to that local camera shop and see if they sell the stuff I'd need to do it. My last post probably didn't come across clearly on them. They actually are a "mom & pop" shop, been around locally apparently since the 1940's. They're big enough to not be just a hole in the wall I guess is what I was trying to say.

[Franglais]

Just a suggestion but it's weird. You could try a chromogenic black-and-white film. This is colour film that develops and prints in standard drugstore chemistry but gives you a black-and-white image. It also scans very well because there is no silver in the negative and the grain is hardly visible.

Here's a pointer:

Kodak BW400CN 135-36 Black & White Film 1629617 B&H Photo

[flyinion]

Just a suggestion but it's weird. You could try a chromogenic black-and-white film. This is colour film that develops and prints in standard drugstore chemistry but gives you a black-and-white image. It also scans very well because there is no silver in the negative and the grain is hardly visible.

Here's a pointer:

Kodak BW400CN 135-36 Black & White Film 1629617 B&H Photo

Thanks for the tip I might have to check that out. I did talk to the guy at the store and he pretty much said I had one of 2 options. Learn to do it myself, scan the film into the computer, run through PS as needed, and print. Send it off to be developed only, scan it etc. He said most of the good paper that was used for B&W isn't made anymore but once you develop the film and scan it to the computer, it works great to print it back out using today's standard photo papers for computer printing. Since that film you linked uses color processes though I guess the paper thing is a non-issue, but then if most of the cheap places are developing it, scanning it, and printing it back out anyway then I guess that still wouldn't matter.

Anyway thanks again . I don't know when I might try any of this out, but I've been meaning to check into it for a while and figured I better ask before I forgot again.

[Greg McCary]

Charles makes some great points. True b&w pictures are a labor of love. I have a darkroom and really enjoy it. But there is a lot of work to get a shot fom camera to print and do it right. Developing the film is cheap, easy and fun. If you can make soup you can develop film. As Charles stated then you are in control of the final image, using different developers ect.
Plustec makes a wonderful film scanner and comes with software, Silverfast, that really gets you close to the look of a print. But there is nothing like making a traditional prints. But it is a labor of love for sure. Most all my equipment was basically given to me. I love doing it from time to time just to help relieve stress. If you think you are going that route get you a couple of books and see just what all is involved.

[cameron665]

Charles and Greg have covered the B&W side pretty well. I would add that processing B&W yourself is easier than it probably seems to you at the moment. May I suggest that you could try running a roll of color film through the camera and getting it processed at a lab. You may be pleasantly surprised with the results.

[Don Schaeffer]

The black and white film you buy these days (if you can find it) is really color film modified to show only monochrome. It is developed in a standard color film process.

[Axle]

The black and white film you buy these days (if you can find it) is really color film modified to show only monochrome. It is developed in a standard color film process.

Actually, Ilford still produces traditional b/w films, Delta 100, Delta 400, FP4, HP5, and Pan F, and Kodak has Tmax 100, Tmax 400, and Tri-X. And you can get these in 35mm, 120, even 4x5 and 8x10! Plus you have companies like Adox, Foma, Efke still pumping out films

And for sure do the developing yourself, you don't need a darkroom I did it in my office at work, change bag and a daylight tank, and you can pull the negs right out and scan them!

Point your browser here: Freestyle Photographic Supplies - Traditional Black & White Film, Paper, Chemicals, Holgas and ULF and get yourself started.

Some of my office developed film:


(Kodak Tri-X)


(Ilford Delta 400)


(Expired Verichrome Pan)

[Franglais]

The black and white film you buy these days (if you can find it) is really color film modified to show only monochrome. It is developed in a standard color film process.

That kind of surprised me too. I went via my usual supplier tonight and checked out the film (haven't done it in a long while). No sign of any chromogenic (color film adapted for B&W). The only black-and white films were:

Ilford FP4 Plus
Ilford HP5 Plus

I first used these films (in the non-Plus version which is almost the same) in the 1970's. Finer-grained films have come (and gone) but these two survive because they have the best "look" to the images. Axle's image from Tri-X is great.

[Chris350]

The black and white film you buy these days (if you can find it) is really color film modified to show only monochrome. It is developed in a standard color film process.

Not necessarily true. There is C-41 based B&W film stock that can be run at Walmart with the expected results.
Pure B&W film stock is very common online. B&H and Adorama out of NYC have loads of it. My freezer is full of Kodak, Illford, AGFA, Rollie and Fuji film stock. I also buy from an outfit called Digital Truth. They specialize in film stock and chemistry. They have some interesting environmentally friendly chemistry available. I lack the space and time to do my own B&W process. I miss that in some ways.
There are some really unique film stocks out of eastern Europe out there.
I use a pro lab to develop and scan my films, then get high quality scans made of images I decide to use if they are for publication.
I also stock Velvia for landscapes.

[PWhite214]

The Kodak BW400CN is available at the Walmart in my area. Pretty decent when I take it to my local drugstore for 1 hour processing.

I bought a couple of tanks, some reels and a changing bag off EBAY, chemicals from Freestyle and for about a $50 investment I can develop both 35mm and 120 B&W film at my kitchen sink. I scan the negatives and have fun.

Hopefully I can build a darkroom soon.

Phil

[Don Schaeffer]

Another problem of course is that scanning of negatives for printing takes a lot of the film quality out of even the best film imges.

[GB1]

Another problem of course is that scanning of negatives for printing takes a lot of the film quality out of even the best film imges.

I've wondered about this. But are you sure that prints directly from slide or film are superior to ones that have been scanned and printed? That is, have you lined both up side by side and examined them ....? I haven't myself yet, but it would be a great experiment.

[cameranoob10]

some cool shots.

[trj35]

nice shot of old warehouse

[Sammy388]

Same here. I was pretty impressed by how the film and scans came out but from what I understand some walmarts have to send the negatives out and only return the scans on a dvd and throw the negatives out! Luckily this didn't happen to me but I've heard from others that it has to them. Just so you're forewarned!

[Luv2bumit]

Nice shoot of warehouse!

[zanejc]

agree : Nice shoot of warehouse

[PWhite214]

I scan film with an flat bed Epson 4490 Photo scanner and Vuescan software. This is Ultrafine Extreme 400 35mm with a Konica Minolta Maxum 7 and Tamron 28-75mm lens.



Phil