First Film SLR Canon EOS-3 Tips & Advice Sought

[SeanLA]

Hello
I just joined this forum today, after browsing some forum posts about Film Cameras. There aren't many discussions about film cameras that I know of!

I was looking for such discussions because I have just bought a Canon EOS 3. Looking forward to its arrival. This will be my very first experience with a Film SLR!

Anyway I have shot with Canon DSLRs exclusively since 2005. I have used point & shoots both digital and film before 2005. Lately I have invested in the Canon line of lenses so my choices of Film SLRs was confined to Canons.

I am just looking for general info about film types and tips about shooting Film as opposed to digital, for best results. I like shooting portraits and street candids, also landscapes. Not interested in birds/wildlife.
Sean
(I had started this thread in the Canon Equipment Forum, but perhaps that is mostly for digital.)

[ComicDom1]

I just bought an E0S-3 as well. I really like it as I am sure you will like yours. Canon makes some great lenses. I got the L disease, but there are many sleepers among their older lenses and I am sure you are discovering. Congrats on your new camera.

Jason

[Xia_Ke]

Hi Sean, welcome to PR and congrats on the new camera Shooting film won't be all that much different than shooting digital. A couple things you'll want to keep in mind though are A.) no more changing ISO from shot to shot. You'll have to pick the proper speed ahead of time for the shooting you will be doing. B.) no more auto white balance. You will need to pick either daylight or tungsten film and then use color correction filters if needed. The importance of this will depend on your desired output. If you are planning on scanning the film for digital prints, the color correction can be done in editing. If you plan on shooting black and white I highly recommend developing your own so that you can have complete control over your shots. It's very easy to do and pretty inexpensive. If you have any questions, don't hesitate to ask. Enjoy the new camera and I hope to see some of your shots

Aaron

[photophorous]

Welcome to Photography Review!

For color I generally prefer slide films, but for landscapes, I think slides are the only way to go. Generally speaking, slides show less grain and thus they enlarge better, but there are some down sides. Slide films usually have less exposure latitude, so you have to be more precise with your exposure. Over exposure leads to blown highlights, very much like digital. Fuji Velvia 50 is my favorite. Velvia 100F is a good one too, but it has cooler colors. For high contrast landscape scenes, you'll get a little more exposure latitude from Provia, and even more from Astia (Sensia 100 is a consumer version of Astia and it's practically identical, but cheaper).

For even more exposure latitude, you have to use negative film. Fuji Reala 100 is a good negative film for fine grain and good color. Works for landscapes or portraits. With a good fine grain print film, you won't notice the grain until you go beyond 8x12.

For portraits where lighting is plentiful, I recommend Fuji Astia (or Sensia 100). Accurate but vivid colors, with practically no grain. With less light, I like Fuji 400H or 800Z, but Kodak Portra films are also very popular. These films would also be good for street or candid shooting. A cheaper film like Fuji Superia Xtra 400 would also be good for street/candids, but I wouldn't do serious portraits with it. This is my favorite cheap film. It's very good for the price, but the colors are not ideal for serious portrait work.

Until you get ready to develop your own B&W, I recommend Ilford XP-2 400 ISO, because it can be processed at any photo lab, just like color film.

Good luck, have fun, and post some photos when you can.

Paul

[SeanLA]

I just bought an E0S-3 as well. I really like it as I am sure you will like yours. Canon makes some great lenses. I got the L disease, but there are many sleepers among their older lenses and I am sure you are discovering. Congrats on your new camera.
Jason

Hey Jason
Yes I am looking forward to trying out a film camera ~ a little intimidated by the limitations of control~ things which can be easily varied on the fly with a DSLR must be thought out in advance with a film cam, but then I knew that going in.
Lenses~ it took me a while to put together a versatile set which will allow me to get the results I seek. Really don't plan to get any more, except maybe replace my 17-40 with the 16-35 II other than that Canon doesn't yet make the 24-70 2.8 L IS but if they do make it I would be tempted

I would like to hear about your experience with the EOS 3, since that is exactly what I was looking to find discussion about.

Cheers
Sean

[drg]

I picked up an EOS-3 This spring to compliment my Canon Collection and as a user! I wanted the advanced features of my EOS 1v's without the price tag and really all the extra sealing and metal don't make a 'better' camera.

The EOS-3 is pretty much going to have either a 1.8 or 1.4 50mm on most of the time this summer. I have used a 70-200mm (both the f/4 and f/2.8 versions) on the camera a couple of times already.

Paul's (photophorous) film suggestions are pretty much what I'd generally suggest with a couple of additional comments.

FUJI's 400 speed color print (C-41) films are going to (if processed properly) provide some of the best photos you can get in prints. The 400H film (I posted grain and scanning sample recently) is a lower or really medium contrast film and the Superia is a higher and slightly more saturated film. In the proper pro-lab hands they can both produce very fine prints. The 400 Superia has often been called the wedding photographers secret weapon. And its cheap. The 400H though for difficul shots with lots of black is really a better choice(i.e. tuxedos).

Astia and Sensia are not similar films!!! I've shot too many exposures of Astia in varying sizes and cameras. Astia is far more color correct that Sensia which will develop a measurable green shift under certain conditions. They both will take excellent photos and many people prefer the Sensia for nature work, particularly with green trees and other landscape features. Sensia is rated as a High contrast film whereas Astia is Moderate at best. Astia is one of the best skin tone films available.

The Astia is much finer grained, but that doesn't really come into play unless you are shooting MF or larger. It is interesting to note with the fine grain that Sensia is usually considered to have better resolution. Go figure.

The EOS-3 with its spot metering and ability to due cumulative reading either under eye control or sequential control provides one of the finest in-camera slide exposure systems ever made in the 35mm format.

Happy shooting and will look forward to what you choose to share with us!!

[SeanLA]

Aaron & Paul
thank you for your advice re film selection. (My camera is not here yet though.)
I am going to ease into film territory with baby steps, as it is new and unfamiliar for me.
I will start with using a high quality lens and basic daylight film and shoot with a diffuser or in bright shade or dawn/dusk light, to minimize problems.

I also just got an Epson Perfection 4490 Photo Color Scanner for $ 206, this is still returnable and I could look for something better. (Advice appreciated) I have no experience with scanning either.

Developing my own film is simply too ambitious for me at this time. I will be satisfied with just enjoying the 'different' look of film prints for now.

I will be reading this thread and others to inform myself and learn more about film photography.
Sean

[SeanLA]

Hmmm tried to post but clicked the "quick reply" button~ post is not visible? Vanished? LOL

Anyway, Aaron, Paul and DRG, thank you for detailed advice on choice of film and the characteristics of each.

My camera will arrive in a few days, meanwhile I will try and download and print the pdf manual for the EOS 3 in anticipation.
Also I just got myself an Epson Perfection 4490 Photo Color Scanner for $206/ this is still returnable. Should I have gotten a different scanner? Please advise, thanks.
Sean

[Xia_Ke]

...I also just got an Epson Perfection 4490 Photo Color Scanner for $ 206, this is still returnable and I could look for something better. (Advice appreciated) I have no experience with scanning either...

Good scanner, bad price. You can get a refurb direct from Epson's website for $109 shipped. My scanner (along with those of several other people I recommended this to) was in mint condition with not the slightest mark on it anywhere and it works great. It's a good scanner but, you can save yourself $100.

...Developing my own film is simply too ambitious for me at this time. I will be satisfied with just enjoying the 'different' look of film prints for now...

If you can follow a Toll House cookie recipe, you can develop B&W film :thumbsup:

[mwfanelli2]

I owned an EOS-3 for a long time until I went digital. Haven't touched it since. Everyone has already noted all the great points about the camera, I won't repeat them.

If you decide to shoot transparency film, make sure you test the metering system. Almost all Canon film cameras, the EOS-3 particularly, had a built in exposure bias of 1/3 to 2/3 of a stop. This led to all sorts of silly arguments (sound familiar?!) here and on other photo forums. That means nothing with print film but with slides can make all the difference. Play with the exposures, do a set of film shots at various EV levels, see where "normal" is for you. If you are scientifically minded, the metering is precise but not necessarily accurate.

Once again, a great camera if you still like film.

[photophorous]

...Astia and Sensia are not similar films!!! I've shot too many exposures of Astia in varying sizes and cameras. Astia is far more color correct that Sensia which will develop a measurable green shift under certain conditions. They both will take excellent photos and many people prefer the Sensia for nature work, particularly with green trees and other landscape features. Sensia is rated as a High contrast film whereas Astia is Moderate at best. Astia is one of the best skin tone films available.

The Astia is much finer grained, but that doesn't really come into play unless you are shooting MF or larger. It is interesting to note with the fine grain that Sensia is usually considered to have better resolution. Go figure.

I still think that if the description of either of these films sounds like what you're looking for, you should try Sensia first and save yourself some money. If you were a fashion photographer I might advise otherwise. But, I've used them both for portraits and landscapes and I can't see a difference.

Paul

[ComicDom1]

Aaron & Paul
thank you for your advice re film selection. (My camera is not here yet though.)
I am going to ease into film territory with baby steps, as it is new and unfamiliar for me.
I will start with using a high quality lens and basic daylight film and shoot with a diffuser or in bright shade or dawn/dusk light, to minimize problems.

I also just got an Epson Perfection 4490 Photo Color Scanner for $ 206, this is still returnable and I could look for something better. (Advice appreciated) I have no experience with scanning either.

Developing my own film is simply too ambitious for me at this time. I will be satisfied with just enjoying the 'different' look of film prints for now.

I will be reading this thread and others to inform myself and learn more about film photography.
Sean

I have been reading my butt off in regard to scanners. I also did the same several years ago when shopping for a scanner to archive over 1000 slides on CD which really now need to go on DVD. You have a couple of routes you can go when it comes to scanners. You can buy a dedicated slide/negative scanner, you can buy a flatbed that scans negatives, or you can have them put on CD rom where they are developed. If you have someone put them on CD, you do not have as much control over the scan or the file size you receive.

There are many brands of scanners out there. From my reading, Nikon coolscan 9000 and 8000 rank in top as far as Slide/Film scanners. These models are very expensive and sometimes its hard to find the negative holder for them. You can also scan Medium format with the Nikons. Other Brands like Benq, Plustec, Microtec, Hp, Canon, Minolta are you usually found for more reasonable prices but you will give up quality in your scans.

Dmax is an important number in regard to your scanner. The Epson 4490 scanner althoug h rated at 3.4 Dmax by Epson is on par with the 4990 Dmax of 4.0 (discontinued) and the V700 and the V750-M which also have a Dmax of 4. Of course as you move into the more expensive models you get a dual lens, different software, scan line read increases, and special attachment for fluid scanning in case of the V750-M. Of course the higher end models are somewhat spendy.

See this link...

http://www.epson.com/cgi-bin/Store/L...seBVCookie=yes

Some of you might find this interactive review quite interesting.

http://www.photo-i.co.uk/News/Feb06/...00_scanner.htm


Jason

[ComicDom1]

Hey Jason
Yes I am looking forward to trying out a film camera ~ a little intimidated by the limitations of control~ things which can be easily varied on the fly with a DSLR must be thought out in advance with a film cam, but then I knew that going in.
Lenses~ it took me a while to put together a versatile set which will allow me to get the results I seek. Really don't plan to get any more, except maybe replace my 17-40 with the 16-35 II other than that Canon doesn't yet make the 24-70 2.8 L IS but if they do make it I would be tempted

I would like to hear about your experience with the EOS 3, since that is exactly what I was looking to find discussion about.

Cheers
Sean

Hello Sean,
I am sure there are many more in this forum that are more experienced than me. I have not had my E0S-3 long. You also have to taked into considration that I have been shooting the Canon 1D since it was released, and then the 1DII when it was released. I also bought a 5D when the priced were really low.

I happen to own the 24-70 2.8 and yes I wish it was IS, I also own a 300mm2.8, 70-200 2.8 IS, 85mm 1.8, 28-135 IS, 50mm 1.8 metal, and the plastic fantastic version. I have a 24mm 2.8 prime I am probably going to sell and recently I sold my 200mm 1.8 I shoot a lot of different stuff and needed a variety of lenses. Why they are not all L glass, I have my fair share.

It will be interesting for me now to shoot subject material with the same glass on film. I think once you spend a little time with the E0S-3 things will become second nature to you.

Jason

[jgredline]

Hey, I am little late to the party but WELCOME TO PR......
I am primarily a Pentax SLR shooter, but I did just acquire a Like new AE-1 that I have fallen in love with..What a fine camera....

Welcome!

[walterick]

I can mimic what most others have said here. If you're looking at shooting portraits on slide film then Astia is probably your best bet. The current emulsion is I believe the finest-grained film in the world? But a very nice and expensive film. You may find starting with Sensia 100 a cheaper way to cut your teeth, but it's not as nice of a film.

One thing that hasn't been mentioned yet for negative films is Kodak's Porta line. I shoot Portra NC (natural color) 160 an 400 for people and love the heck out of it. Never did like Fuji's portrait films for the Kodak VC line (vivid color.) But give me Portra NC any day!

Good luck with your choices, and welcome!

Rick

[SeanLA]

Scanner: Aaron, thanks for the heads up~ I will get my $ 206 back and buy another one.

Jason, those are some fine Canon lenses you have in your kit. How do you compare shooting with the 1 series bodies as opposed to lighter crop bodies and the 5D?
I have been using a 5D exclusively since 2005, and added a back up crop body 40D last year. I have wondered about the 1 series, especially now that the 1DsIII is out, lots of 1DsII bodies are available today for about the price I paid for my 5D. The greater resolution should be great for studio portraits and also to bring out detail in landscapes.

Thanks all for the welcoming words

I am expecting my EOS 3 to be delivered on July 28 (should have paid for expedited shipping ~ darn!).

Cheers
Sean

[ComicDom1]

Scanner: Aaron, thanks for the heads up~ I will get my $ 206 back and buy another one.

Jason, those are some fine Canon lenses you have in your kit. How do you compare shooting with the 1 series bodies as opposed to lighter crop bodies and the 5D?
I have been using a 5D exclusively since 2005, and added a back up crop body 40D last year. I have wondered about the 1 series, especially now that the 1DsIII is out, lots of 1DsII bodies are available today for about the price I paid for my 5D. The greater resolution should be great for studio portraits and also to bring out detail in landscapes.

Thanks all for the welcoming words

I am expecting my EOS 3 to be delivered on July 28 (should have paid for expedited shipping ~ darn!).

Cheers
Sean

Sean, The 5D and 40D are great cameras. The 1D bodies have a different style of menu interface, but Canon like Nikon is moving their menu and button interface to be similar all through their line. You will probably start to notice this with the newer camera's. The 1D series is all about build, weather sealing, focus speed, accuracy, and fps. In addition, the larger sensors have a larger pixel pitch size which will affect the final image. Keep in mind a lot of photographers or so called photographers shoot these like a machine gun at 8fps or more. I have never found it necessary to do that much unless I want a quick sequence of images. Most of the time 3fps is more than adequate. It all depends on your skill set. I am a strong believer in good framing and technique.

In my opinion the 5D's weakness was its focus system but then it depends on what you shoot. The 5D is capable of shooting low light sports as well as studio work and of course much more. Hopefully the replacement will have a much better focus system. I can live with the 3 fps limitation. In the studio it does not matter anyway.

I have shot both the 20D and 30D for indoor sports and find them more than adequate in that regard. Funny my preference is still the 1D and 1DMKII. Maybe I am a snob, or just spoiled. Once you shoot a 1D series camera and get used to it and what it can produce, its hard to go back and be satisfied with the other bodies. As digital continues to progress, more and more features and capabilities are appearing on the less expensive bodies. Its getting to a point where its getting more difficult to justify the more expensive body.

Jason