Maxxum 7D or Canon 20D

[F-15_Flyer]

I've searched the forums and could not find a similar post so here it is and sorry if it is!

Which one do you guys think is better, overall. I've read plenty of reviews, they both have their pros and cons, but the Canon 20D seems to be a better camera overall. Thats just MY opinion, I want to hear EVERYONE'S opinion on it though.

Also I've just included a poll, but please respond to the post telling the reason for your choice, not only the poll.

Thank you.

[JK_Photo]

I can't comment on the 7D. i'm just not that familiar with Minolta.
I've got the 20D. I can honestly say that it's got all the bells and whistles I need.
So I'll just list a few niggles I have about it.
I'm not crazy about the finish they've put on it. The plastic finish gets marked easily by fingernails and the like. It's got a very slight abrasive texture which acts like an emery board or something.
I've got the BG-E2 grip and i find that the screw mount tends to slip too easily and it comes slightly loose - not off - which causes a jiggle. Not up to snuff in my opinion.
There's no anti-glare option for the LCD. Other manufacturers make snap on anti-glare screens which also protect from scratching or have anti-glare coatings. In fact Canon even has this coating on some of their prosumer models; why not my $2000(canadian) 20D??
That's about it.
If you want an in-depth review of the 20D and probably the 7D as well check out DPReview

[jar_e]

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/koni...a7d/page20.asp

That site should provide a good breakdown of features/options.

[F-15_Flyer]

yep, ive read all those reviews. hehe, like i said before, im tryin to get the people's opinions now.

thanks for your response though jar_e.

and thx jon for your response. I learned a couple things that the reviews dont tell you.

[JK_Photo]

I've just been on a Canon forum discussing the loose BG-E2 grip problem with the 20D.
Seems that Canon may have addressed the issue in later releases of the grip (ser. #05xxx and higher) with the addition of a washer. This is not verified however.
Also mentioned was the fact that problem grips could be sent in to Canon for a fix. I'm going to look into this myself.
Happy cmera hunting!

[F-15_Flyer]

I've heard from one of my friends(who has the canon 20d) that dust gets on the cmos sensor, and sticks to it like a magnet, creating small black dots on some of the photos if not kept clean. He has to buy some sort of swabs to clean it. (http://www.pbase.com/copperhill/image/11151178)

Is this true also with you Jon?

And does this only happen with the Canon 20D, or with almost EVERY slr digital.

P.S.-He also told me that their coming out with a new technology that will repel the dust from the cmos sensor.

[JK_Photo]

I've not experienced anything like that as of yet.
I've read that the 20D is one of the better ones for dust sealing i.e. it is harder for dust to penetrate to the cmos, not impossible, but then I don't see how it could be impossible on any camera with interchangeable lenses. It's just a fact that dust will find it's way in. Whether it sticks or not would depend entirely on the actual makeup of that particular piece of dust. If grease or something is present in the dust particle chances are it will stick and stick hard.
If you want super serious dust sealing you'll have to spend the really big bucks but even then there's no guarantee.
Personally I expect to have to clean my equipment regularly if I want to keep it in tiptop shape.
i guess dust and dirt in and on your gear is proof you're out there using it.
There are supposed technologies used in some sensors that claim to repel dust better, whether or not these work well I don't know. I think Olympus employs it in some of their cameras. I think one technology actually vibrates the sensor so dust falls off. Not sure where the dust goes however.

If you have a speck or two, clone it out. I guarantee it will be less cloning than a scanned print/neg/slide!

[Mjjglasgow]

I think really this a question very few people can answer - after all I doubt many people here have had BOTH cameras in their hands long enough to really come up with a good comparison and speak with any authority on the matter. Also I think its impossible to say that any one camera out there is absoulutely the best on the market - its all about individual needs. For my needs I think the 7D is better than the 20D and here's why....

First of all I think the 8 versus 6MP thing is unimportant - once you reach a certain level adding extra MP produces diminishing returns. 8 gives you an extra 33% pixels however when you take into account that you have to increase pixels in both x and y dimensions its only a 10% or so increase along each axis - in short its the difference between being able to make a print 11 inches long at 300dpi and being able to make a print 10 inches long. Given that the 7D images are very clean and free from artifacts they respond very well to interpolation programs such as genuine fractals adn I'd be surprised if anyone could tell the difference between the two in real life situations. I'm not saying that 8MP is totally useless - its clearly a step in the right direction - but in terms of actual practical benefit to photography its a fairly minimal improvement whereas say 12MP would be a definite advantage.

So once you get that out of the way I think the 20D has one clear advantage of the 7D while I can think of two advantages of the 7D over the 20D (though one is more a personal preference perhaps). The 20D does 5fps where the 7D does 3fps which is still fairly respectable but the 20D is perhaps a better candidate for sports and action photography. The 20D also writes files faster to a CF card meaning that over a longer period of time you can shoot more frames but the latest 7D firmware seems to have improved 7D performance to the same level so the main benefit for action shooting is the higher fps.

For me though I never do action shooting so this wasnt really a factor in my decision.

The 7Ds antishake really is a major plus over the 20D IMO. Some people tend to dismiss AS as a poor mans image stabilisation but the truth it is it something differnet from conventional lens based image stabilisation technologies and has different pros and cons. Lens based seems to be a little better at longer focal lengths while body AS gives you far greater flexibility. I have taken shots at low shutter speeds (sometimes deliberately to introduce motion blur) using lenses that dont have IS versions in Canon or Nikon lens and in situations where a tripod would be physically impossible or not permitted - so simply put I've taken shots I couldnt have got with a 20D with my 7D. The idea of only being able to use a small selection of special IS lenses when I need stabilisation seems quaint to me now. Sure a tripod is always better than ANY form of IS but its not always practical and AS really opens up new posibilities and gives me greater flexibility when taking photos.

The second advantage (and this is probably a personal preference like I said) is the Minolta user interface. Every major photographic function has a dedicated control - at first the number of knobs and dials seems confusing but after you get used to it it makes the camera much quicker and more intuitive to use than a system requiring more use of multifunction control wheels and menu options ever could be. The fact that each photo setting usually has a dedicated physical control also means that you can get a quick visual reference on each setting without using the rear LCD (which is excellent incidentally). Generally speaking the controls are very intelligently laid out and designed with many neat touches such as the auto-rotating info LCD and the handy position of the AF/MF toggle. Also unlike the 20D you don't have to go through multiple menu options to set mirror lock up for example. The 7D also has a spot meter.

For my style of photography the 7D suits me much better than the 20D and I wouldn't want to switch to a camera without AS or the dials-and-knobs interface. For other people with other needs it might be different. I really don't see how the 20D is better overall other than the very impressive 5fps, especially now the firmware update has improved the 7Ds write speeds and overall responsiveness. Most in depth reviews I've seen (Uk print magazines Amateur Photographer and Digital Camera Shopper) and DPreview.com have rated them as pretty much equal while the ones that have rated the 7D lower have tended to focus mainly on the MP issue (eg Practical Photography in the UK). As I said before I don't think 8MP versus 6 makes enough of a practical difference to be worth worrying about (if it was 12 versus 6 then we would be talking) where the 7D has enough over other 6MP models to be worth the extra cost (responsiveness, antishake, the viewfinder and control layout, build quality, more photographic controls compared to D70 and 300D etc).

[F-15_Flyer]

Wow thank you very much Mjjglasgow for the intense review, I definetely have a different view on the 7D now. I agree with you on it all depends on the photographers needs. And I dont do sports/action photogrpahy and dont have too much interest in it, so i'll definetely look into the 7D a little bit more.

Thanks for everyones replies. Keep postin reviews for those of you who havent and have one of these cameras please!! ;)

[setiprime]

Hey Flyer-- What cha' gonna do with all this non-scientific info?

[Photo-John]

Mjjglasgow-
That was an awesome post! I love it when people take the time to really lay out a useful report. Now, I have to ask - have you posted a review? If not, please do. The reviews section presents your experience in an organized, searchable, and quantifiable way. And we need your review.

Konica Minolta Maxxum 7D Reviews >>

Now I'll add a little bit of my own experience. Let me qualify it by saying that I don't own either camera. But, as you know, I'm immersed in the camera world and have handled almost everything. I own a Canon 10D and am very aware of the improvements Canon made to the 20D. And at PMA, a couple of weeks ago, I had the opportunity to play a little and take some test photos with the Maxxum 7D.

Different strategies

I've been very curious to see how well Maxxum 7D's AS feature does as a marketing tool. I think it's a revolutionary idea and I expected it would attract a lot of people shopping for their first digital SLR. Even if it doesn't work as well as Canon IS and Nikon VR, it's still a great, and cost-effective idea. I believe it will save you money because you can buy any lens in the Konica Minolta lineup. And it does work. Like I said, I tried it at PMA and successfully shot as slow as 1/8th second at 60mm. That's sweet. And even though I love Canon's control dials, I think Konica Minolta has wonderfully built and designed cameras. The controls are great and their cameras, including the Maxxum 7D, absolutely feel the best.

Since I own a Canon EOS 10D (and I've owned 4 Canon EOS SLRs), I'm intimate with the way Canon's cameras work. As you pointed out, the resolution isn't that important. I haven't felt the need to replace my 10D just because of the increased resolution. More resolution does mean more cropping room, though. For sports and action, that matters more than other kinds of photography. And the faster capture rate and excellent Canon AF also make the 20D a good entry-level choice for an action camera. You will have to invest more to get image stabilization with Canon.

In the end I think it comes down to use. If you want to shoot action, I'd say Canon, for sure. But if you're thinking more of people, landscape, and other still stuff, then I think the Maxxum 7D is a great choice. I really think having the built-in AS is awesome. It will mean you can always get just a little more out of whatever lens you're using. And you can alwasy shoot just a little later in the evening. You'll be able to avoid using flash more often. And you'll be able to get useable photos when you otherwise might not have been able to, without changing lenses, and without buying any special lenses.

Hope that helps. Let us know what you decide.

[F-15_Flyer]

Thank you everyone for your excellent inputs.

I've decided that when the time comes(this summer) i'm going to purchase the Konica Minolta Maxxum 7D. Most if not all of my photography is of People, Landscape, and architecture. Yes, I have shot Action/Sports, but It just doesn't interest me the way all of the other categories do.

I've looked at many reviews, both of the cameras in my eyes are superb in technology, features, quality, and so on. It really does come down to what the user will do with it. As said before, it only comes down to a couple options: If your going to take Action photography for the most part, get the Canon 20D, and if your going to be doing Landscapes, people, etc etc mostly, get the Minolta 7D.

I choose option two.

Thanks again for everyones kind words!

[PinkFloyd]

I just want to hit a few review points that I feel are important and not duplicate the excellent reviews already on this post. After writing this I’m even happier than ever that I decided on the Minolta 7D even though the Canon 20D is also an excellent camera. It is pretty much to the point that any DSLR you buy will be excellent and having any of them is far better than having none of them.

If I wasn’t sure on a point I researched it as best I could so please bear with any small mistakes if I made any.

My Background:

In the mid 80’s I used a Canon A-1 which was a rock solid workhouse manual camera. You could probably throw that camera against the wall and pick it up and start shooting like nothing ever happened.

Once I decided to jump on the auto focus bandwagon I switched to Minolta. I shot with the Minolta 9000 professionally for almost 10 years. In those 10 years of shooting thousands of rolls of film each of my 2 bodies went in for repair once. One for a new LCD screen and one for a new manual film advance when I tried to force a stuck roll of film. During that time Canon started the EOS line and 2 of my coworkers went that route. While both of them never dropped the Canon’s and still use Canon cameras to this day both of them had what I called “exploding shutter syndrome”. Canon had started using a polycarbonate shutter which just didn’t hold up under extreme use. Both of them replaced shutters on more than one camera several times.

Over the years Minolta has been very wishy-washy on whether they really want to be a professional camera company or not. This has really hurt their image in the professionals circle to the point their cameras are barely even mentioned. Considering the incredible array of lens and available options on the professional level for these cameras I always found the lack of multiple professional bodies and their slowness of putting new bodies out very puzzling.

Currently:

I bought the Minolta 7D while a friend bought the Canon 20D which I have used some just to get a feel for it. We both bought vertical grips for our cameras which is an important feature to me.

I had seriously considered both the Canon 20D and the Nikon D70 before deciding hands down on the Minolta. For starters the feel of the Minolta to me was much better than the others. The hand grip is perfect for my hand and fingers. Everything is where I need it. The layout of the controls is incredible. Other reviewers have mentioned that the shutter release is to close to the body, but it feels comfortable to me in that spot.

•The vertical grip for the 7D also continues the correct contours for my hands along with the most important buttons right at the tips of my fingers. In particular the AE lock and AF/M focus buttons are key for my purposes. It was truly made for the camera with the user in mind.
•The vertical grip for the Canon quite frankly feels like a battery holder with a shutter button on it to me.
•Nikon has stated they won’t make a vertical grip for the D70 so bye bye Nikon.

Larger screen:
•The 2.5” screen versus the 1.8” may not seem like a big deal, but try using the larger screen and then go to the smaller screen. I wear reading glasses and with the 7D I am able to set all options and make decisions without having to put my glasses on between shots. With the 20D it is far more difficult especially with so many of its features buried in menus.

5fps vs 3 fps:
•While the 2 extra fps may only be needed for action photography I find it perplexing that Minolta couldn’t achieve an fps equivalent to their older film cameras which did have 5 fps capabilities. That being said it is also interesting to note that the 20D and 7D can only maintain these speeds for 25 and 24 frames respectively. So if you do use the cameras for action photography you can only get the 20D at 5 fps for 5 seconds at a time while the 3 fps may be a little slower it will last for 8 seconds on the 7D.

Lens cost:
•I’m not sure it you can make this point enough times, but in the end you will spend at the least hundreds which could go into the thousands paying for the IS lenses to get an equivalent anti-shake that $100 extra in the body cost will get you. For example when my friend bought the 20D he bought the excellent EF-S 17-85MM f4-5.6 IS USM lens which was about $600. I am getting ready to buy the Tamron AF18-200MM F/3.5-6.3 XR Di II for $400. Now I realize many will complain that I shouldn’t compare a Canon lens to a Tamron lens, but the bottom line is these are both excellent lenses and for $200 less and double the focal length I’m sure you can see the savings. You can buy the same Tamron lens for the Canon as well and for the same $400, but you lose the anti-shake capability.

Auto focus:
•The Canon USM lenses definitely win in the auto focus speed category. But in my experience, unless it is a larger heavier lens the speeds are close enough to not really matter to much. And I haven’t had any problems with auto focus speed for my uses with the 7D.

Shutter:
•Ever since the original EOS’s I have been worried about shutter quality. I have seen in many reviews the concern that Cannon’s shutters are rated at 50,000 shots and I have also seen that the 7D’s shutter is rated at 140,000 shots. I cannot confirm either of these numbers from official sources however I do know that the Minolta 9000 used a Titanium shutter not a polycarbonate so at least on the Minolta side the number doesn’t surprise me.
•Another strange aspect of the 7D is shutter speed. On previous film cameras the shutter speed for the Minolta 800 was 1/8000 and the Minolta 9 is 1/12000 and then comes the 7D going backwards at 1/4000. Of course I don’t think I have ever done an exposure over 1/2000. The 20D on the other hand has a very respectable 1/8000 shutter speed.

Flash Synch:
•At first look the 20D synchs with the flash at 1/250 and the 7D only synchs at 1/160. However the 7D synchs at all speeds all the way up to the 1/4000 when using the 3600 or 5600 flash attached and the 20D also synchs all the way to 1/8000 with the higher end speedlites.

Exposure modes:
•This is of course my personnel preference but that is what this review is all about. The 20D has several preset scene modes which I feel have no place on any camera that wants to even be considered a prosumer product let alone professional. However the 3 custom modes on the 7D exposure dial are exactly the type of custom functions that I need and will actually use. As an example I typically set up a manual custom function for flash use like 1/60 at f8 with an ISO of 400. That way I can instantly change from a different mode to that as needed. And of course the possibilities are almost limitless.

Other Features:
•The 7D has more a lot of more professional oriented features that can be named here and from what I have seen many of these features aren’t available to the 20D.
•The 7D can change out focusing screens.
•The 7D has a bulb mode for longer than 30 seconds exposures. The 20D may have this but if it does it’s not listed in their specs and I haven’t had a chance to check my friend’s camera on this one.
•The 7D has a built in interval feature. Back when I was using my 9000 I had to pay $400 for a program back to do interval photography! This may not be for everyone, but its pretty cool to have your camera take a picture every couple of minutes all day long during a construction project or something similar.