My digital camera wont't work in the cold.

[Infinabyte]

Now that I have something to transfer my pics to the computer, I've started using my camera outside. The problem is, it won't work. Each time I've tried it's been over +20 degrees Fahrenheit outside. I have a a digital SLR- a Canon EOS 10D.

I went out, took pictures, and after less than an hour it started acting funny. At first it wouldn't take pictures when I pointed it upward and gave an "error 99". I had to turn it off and on again to clear the error. When I checked the pic, it was completely black. I tried putting in a fresh battery I had with me, but that didn't help. After a little while it wouldn't take them no matter which way I pointed it. At one point I was able to watch the shutter close, so I think that had something to do with the errors I kept getting.

When I came back in I discovered that some of the pictures I had taken before I started getting the errors were completely black, some taken as few as 15 minutes after going outside.

After the camera had been inside for awhile and warmed up I tried using it, and it worked fine. In fact it's been working fine indoors ever since. But if I go out for any length of time... some of the pics will be black.

Is that normal for digital cameras? For my model? What could be wrong?

[Photo-John]

That's not normal. I had an EOS 10D and did a whole bunch of outdoor shooting with it below freezing. The batteries are pretty terrible in the cold, and so that's the first thing I'd consider. But it since you replaced the battery, it doesn't seem like that's the problem. Did you replace the battery with a warm one? It's a good idea to keep batteries in a pocket close to your body so they stay warm. If the battery was as cold as the camera, you might want to try it again with a warm one. And if the batteries are old, that may be a problem, too. The capacity of my 10D batteries saw a definite decline as they aged.

Have you called Canon's customer service number? You might also want to post this one the [url=http://forums.photographyreview.com/forumdisplay.php?f=50Canon forum[/url]. You might get other 10D owners' attention there.

[Infinabyte]

I just did a test.

I took the camera outside and set it on the balcony. After a while I went outside and took a pic. I went back in and out again until it wouldn't work properly. Then I put in a fresh, warm battery that I had been keeping inside. It still didn't function properly. I then put in a warm flash card. Still wouldn't function properly. Changing the battery/card took less than two minutes, so they didn't have time to chill.

Same problems I described earlier- being able to watch the shutter, error 99, and jet black pictures.

It's gotta be the camera itself, somehow. A warm battery & card didn't make a difference.

[Infinabyte]

I checked Canon's website (canon.com) and I called Canon Tech Support (1-800-828-4040) today.

On the website it says the operating temperature range is 0 - 40°C / 32 - 104°F. So apparently it's not designed for below freezing weather. Then I called tech support just to be sure. The guy said that either it's normal for it to operate like that in the cold, or it's the shutter mechanism. It acting funny in the cold could be a sign that the mech is wearing out. If it starts pulling acting up when it's room temperature, then the shutter mechanism, or at least part of it, will need replacing. It typically runs in the $300 range for the whole mech.

He says that if I replaced the mech, it might fix the problem, but that since it's not spec'ed for low temps, it could just be that the cold is hard on it and is keeping it from functioning properly. The cold might be making the spring stiff, or keeping the mirror from rotating, or something.

Well, I'm not willing to spend that much on something that might not work anyway. So my options are either to not take pictures outside for six months of the year, buy a camera that actually works outdoors, or find a way to keep this sucker warm.

I asked if they sold anything to keep the camera warm, like a heated glove for the camera, but he said they didn't. The guy mentioned something about using hand warmer stuff to keep the camera warm, but I'm not familiar with that or really know how to use it.

Anyone know how to keep the camera warm? Or how well the average digital functions in cold weather? I'm constantly composing/taking shots, so keeping it by my body wouldn't work. It'd be in my jacket for all of two minutes out of an hour long expedition, I swear.

I never had this problem with my film camera. Is this a problem that just affects digital equipment?

[Photo-John]

There are pro ski and snowboard photographers shooting digital in nasty conditions. Some of them are probably using - or at least have shot with the 10D. As I said, I used my 10D below the recommended temperature range and it worked fine -aside from the crappy battery life. I'd also turned over the frame counter on my 10D at least once. How many exposures have you made with yours? I don't think it's worth replacing your shutter mechanism. I sold my 10D for $400 - just $100 more than they're asking for the questionable repair. You might try going to the 10D review page and sending 10D owners PMs to see if any of them are shooting in the cold and if they have problems. Trying to keep the camera warm is not a solution. You want to keep the camera the same temperature as the air. If it's warmer you might get condensation on your lens. I think you have a problem with your camera and it may be time to move on.

[Infinabyte]

I got it used. Well, technically it's not mine, I didn't buy it, but I'm the one that actually uses it. The lenses are scratched and need replacing. There's duct tape on the bottom holding something in. I need to replace the duct tape with an actual cover. The camera didn't even come with a lens cap or the remote. The last owner sure took care of it.
When I click info on the newest pic it says 173-7393. I'm guessing that means at least 7393 pics have been taken with it? I think I haven't taken more than a thousand myself. I didn't really start using it until I got a card reader, so half of those were taken in the past week or so.

You might try going to the 10D review page and sending 10D owners PMs to see if any of them are shooting in the cold and if they have problems.

I think I will.

Trying to keep the camera warm is not a solution. You want to keep the camera the same temperature as the air. If it's warmer you might get condensation on your lens.

I though condensation only happened if the camera was colder than the outside air? How would it get condensation if it's warmer?

I think you have a problem with your camera and it may be time to move on.

Ugh. I'm thinking about that. But the problem isn't just the money, but the amount of time it would take to figure out what to get, and then once I figure it out it might not even be available where I live. And I won't shop online. I guess a local store could special order it, though. I guess if worse comes to worse I'll be using my film camera when I travel this summer. I really don't want to, though. I'm so tired of paying for developing, and it's harder to get the pics on the computer that way. I'm just so frustrated.

I just bought a new battery for the digital not too long ago, so that I could charge one up when I'm shooting with the other. Would that battery work in other cameras? I'd hate to have wasted $50 on something I won't use. At least the flash cards are transferable.

For me, I was excited about the digital because I thought, "Oh, boy, I can save money on film and take even more pictures than usual. I can even take pictures of random stuff without 'wasting' film!" So much for saving money. At least if I get the digital camera to function (or buy one that does) I'll be taking more pictures.

As I said, I used my 10D below the recommended temperature range and it worked fine -aside from the crappy battery life.

How long were you outside for? What was the temperature?

[Chantel Stewels]

I'm no camera expert but I recall someone I knew once had this 'Error99' problem with his Canon SLR and it eventually came out to be a lens and not a camera problem. More specifically the 'IS unit' or something like that in the lens.

[Frog]

I hope you didn't spend a lot on a camera with scratched lenses and duct taped together.
There really shouldn't be a problem shooting in the cold.
If budget is a problem, go with one of the better point and shoots. I'd suggest getting a canon dslr body if your lenses weren't already scratched up. That would depend on how many lenses and if they are ALL scratched.

[Photo-John]

How long were you outside for? What was the temperature?

I was outside for hours. Once was a mountain bike ride in November at Lake Tahoe. I shot photos for the whole ride. The other time I was skiing. I didn't have any problems - other than the battery - either time.

If you were to buy a new camera, a Canon EOS 20D would use the same battery. I think an EOS 30D would, too. And those cameras are much, much better than the 10D. I hated my 10D about half the time I used it because the auto focus was so unpredictable.

For what it's worth, I check on a sports photography site I use and pro snow photographers there said they haven't had problems with their 10D cameras in the cold. After reading your description of the camera, I really think you should move on. I'm not sure where you live or why you won't shop online, but you would really benefit from a new camera. If you have reservations about shopping online, we can point you to absolutely reliable and trustworthy dealers.

[Infinabyte]

I would've used the "shocked" icon for the title, but the light bulb was as close as I could get it.

I found this thread/site all about ERR99: http://www.richardsnotes.org/archive...ontact-points/

A lot of the recommendations involve cleaning the contact between the lens and the camera, but one person said that updating the firmware cleared up their error. I decided to do that (update the firmware), 'cause why not? It might save me some headaches in the future if I ever get this problem solved, right?

I was going to buy some lintless (nylon) q-tips and a clean eraser next time I went to the store so I could clean the contacts and see if that would work. I wasn't planning on doing a test with just the firmware updated, until I read a post about someone trying it with the lens detached, to ensure no "contact" problems. I thought, "You can take a picture with the lens off?!" So I set the camera outside to try it.

I recorded the time by taking a pic at 19:44. I let it sit for awhile. The battery was dead (it was already pretty close, anyway), so I replaced it with a warm one. I took a pic at 20:22, it worked fine, so I took a few more, totaling nine. It was still working, so I brought the battery back in and let the camera sit a while longer. More pics at 20:54- five of them. After an hour time I should be getting errors on every pic, so I'm satisfied that it's working. None of them were black, and no ERR99's appeared.

I'm shocked! But thrilled. To clarify, the shutter was moving a little slower than when it's warm, but the pics didn't suffer any for it. I must e-mail Canon about this. Imagine, saying I should pay $300 to fix something a little software can take care of! He could have asked if I had the latest firmware. :mad2:
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Regarding the autofocus- yeah, I agree, it sucks. It didn't know the camera could take sharp pics, but one day I got lucky photographing a water glass, and WOW, the ice looked nice. But two or three pics out of hundreds have a portion of the pic in perfect focus? Not fun.

[Infinabyte]

A few last notes:

Judging by the site I listed, ERR99 seems to be a general error, rather than a specific one. So my error 99 might be caused by something different than someone else's.

When I did the test it was less than 20 out, but above 10. I didn't get a good shot of the thermometer (I was moving the camera around while it was shooting), so I don't know exactly, but it was colder tonight than it was before when my camera was messing up, anyway.

The shutter was opening slower than under warm conditions, but seemed to close the way it should. I think.

$700 was paid for this camera. The purchaser still thinks it's a good deal. I don't know how much a camera in this condition is worth used, but I don't think I would have bought it, that's for sure. And yeah, both lenses are scratched.

In case anyone else wants the firmware, it can be found at: http://www.canon.co.jp/Imaging/EOS10...irmware-e.html I updated my firmware from 1.0 to 2.0.1. I think it used to be 1.0.0, but it might have been 1.0.1. I can't remember.

I'll probably go out taking pics sometime soon. Once I do that I'll let you guys know if there's any further problems.

BTW, I think this question was missed the first time: I thought condensation only happened if the camera was colder than the outside air? How would it get condensation if it's warmer?

*edit to add* Could the shutter lag be caused by condensation freezing in the camera or something? I've been reading about how you're supposed to put the camera in a camera bag or a plastic bag when taking it inside to let it warm up slowly to prevent condensation. Are you also supposed to let it cool down slowly in a ziploc or camera bag when you take it out into the cold? I don't do that at all. It goes straight in, straight out. But I haven't seen any moisture on the camera, either. Just wondering.

I live in a decent sized city, but I don't think they would have every camera ever made here. So it's possible I could decide on one then find that it isn't carried. As far as not shopping online- even if I had total confidence in the company, who knows what might go wrong on my end. My machine hasn't exactly had a virus-free life. I suppose if you could order over the telephone, that would help, but, I like being able to see an item in person before purchasing, and to be able to take it back to the store if there's something wrong with it. Cheaper and less hassle than shipping tag, I think.

The last time, the only time, I got something online, someone else ordered it and I just gave her the money. And I was only willing to do that because I really needed the product. Just a bit leery, that's all.

[Photo-John]

Thanks for the update about the error 99. It's good to remind everyone to upgrade their firmware. I bet most of us don't do it. But there's a reason they make firmware updates and some of them seriously improve camera performance. I think I did one firmware upgrade on my 10D but I don't remember what it did.

Ok, I've got a condensation answer. Usually you'll see it when taking your camera in from the cold and allowing the cold glass to hit warm air. The cold glass will make the water in the air condense on the glass. However, if you take a warm camera out into the cold, the warm air inside you lens can dump moisture. It will probably depend on how dry the air is and how much of a temperature change. I know I've had it happen to me both ways. But usually I have my camera in a bag so that the temperature change is gradual. As long as you do that, you shouldn't have any problem.

I don't know about increased shutter-lag because of cold. It doesn't sound like something that should happen. If it does, I would think something is wrong. It could be there's machine grease coming out of your shutter and it's getting sticky in the cold. I don't know if that happens with current shutters. But I know it happened with my old leaf shutter medium format lenses.

It's fine if you don't want to buy online. If you buy locally you should get better service and you get to support your local economy. That's nice. On the other hand, if you buy online, you'll usually save a bit of money. And if you buy new you get a manufacturer's warranty that allows you to take the camera to any authorized dealer and have them deal with the shipping and repair hassles. But if you're more comfortable buying at the local shop, by all means do it. If you have a good shop you can build a relationship with, even better. I usually buy online to save money. But sometimes I'm in a hurry and I always feel good about keeping my money in the area.

[Infinabyte]

Well, I took it outside the other day, and apparently it's not fixed. It started pulling the "you can't point it upward and take a picture" baloney. More ERR99's and black pictures. When I pointed it up the shutter didn't go all the way open, but it worked just fine when I aimed it forward or down, at least I think it did. I don't remember if any of those pictures turned out black, but at least they didn't give the error. I decided to try pointing the camera down and seeing if taking pics not more than a few seconds apart would clear it up.

So I ended up taking 180 pictures of snow, at which point I got bored and headed inside. Before I went in I decided to take a few pictures of the stairs, pointing the camera upward. I figured it wouldn't work, but tried anyway. Lo and behold, the shutter moved normally, even though I was pointing it up! Unfortunately by that point I was too cold/frustrated/bored to stay out and experiment any longer, so I went in.

I'm going to have to do some more experimenting to see what's causing it, but I suspect it may be a condensation/freezing condensation thing rather than a cold thing per se. Especially since the problem cleared up after an hour or so, rather than getting worse. And the fact that I brought the camera outside without putting it into a bag or waiting for it to adjust to the cold before taking pictures. I still need to see if cleaning the contacts will do anything. I forgot to last time. I couldn't find nylon swabs, but I did get a clean eraser.