Canon G7 and high school sports

[Junebug32]

Can I get some decent pictures with the G7 in a high school gym and on a lighted HS football field at night? Or do I absolutley have to go with like the Xti and 70x200 lense?
There is a real big difference in the prices of the 2.
Right now I have the Kodak 6490 (had for 2 years) and am not pleased any more with the pictures. Help me out, please?

[poker]

Newer sensors have reduced noise at higher ISOs. The G7 has 10.4MP and goes up to 1600ISO if you need it. Your Kodak goes up to 800 I believe.

The G7 does 35-210mm (35mm eq) but a 70-200 lens mated to a DSLR with a 1.6x crop is more like a 112-320.

The G7 will do better than your Kodak but don't you want to graduate to a DSLR? Consider a Canon Digital Rebel XT. Save a buck and it still performs quite well at high ISOs.

[photophorous]

I have a G7, and although I think it's high ISO performance is above average for a small sensor camera, it is nowhere near as good as a DSLR. Whether or not it will work for you depends on your expectations. It goes up to ISO 1600, but you won't be able to tell the basketball from a players head at that setting (I'm exagerating). ISO 800 is better but after you run noise reduction, there won't be a lot of detail. It's usable at 400, and decent at 200, but noise is still quite visible even at 200. Outdoor shots at 80 or 100 look fantastic, but this is not the right camera for nice prints of poorly lit sporting events.

Paul

[Junebug32]

Go to my Webshots and look at the pictures I have taken of both basketball and football. This is what I am getting with my camera right now. I know they aren't as sharp as they would be with Canon Xti that I have been thinking about but still wonder about the G7. Would I get better shots with the G7 than I am getting now?

http://community.webshots.com/user/junebug1932

I know these aren't those beautiful shots that others are getting with the better cameras.
I am a 75 year old grandmother with just one grandson still in HS. (No great grandchildren in the near future) In 2 years I won't be taking these kind of shots any more ( I probably won't be able to crawl around the bleachers as well) this is why I am wondering about the extra expense of the Xti.

June

[photophorous]

June,

Maybe you should consider the new Fuji F31fd. Another member of this site is working on a review, and posted a teaser thread to show how well it does with high ISO noise.

Here's the thread: How we once shot at 1600 ISO!

From what I've seen, this is as good as it gets for a small sensor camera, and it's significantly cheaper than the G7. This camera only has a 3x zoom though. I'm not sure if that is powerful enough for you.

I haven't taken many high ISO shots with the G7, but I suspect it would do better than what you currently have. I just don't know if it would be enough better to justify the price tag. I'm real busy preparing for a trip right now, but I'll try to take a few shots with the G7 and post them tonight, so check back later.

Paul

[photophorous]

June,

I just added some photos to my gallery. You'll need to view them full size to really see how they look. I have not edited them in any way...they're straight out of the camera. A couple where just snapshots, and the rest (the beer bottles) are ones I just took to show you how the camera does at ISO 200-1600. I think I was being a little harsh in my previous posts. This camera is great for a compact, and if you're sure you don't want a DSLR or one of the larger "Super Zoom" cameras, this is a good choice.

I hope this helps.

Paul

[poker]

Paul, very good of you to provide these samples! I'm a bit surprised at the amount of noise at 800. Over the weekend, I used 800 on my Canon Digital Rebel with only 6MP and I think it did better than the G7. I'll post the shot and SOOC full image crop to show the noise.

June can't get this type of help from the local department store.

By the way June, I'm so happy to see someone so involved with photographing their grandkids.

[photophorous]

I'm a bit surprised at the amount of noise at 800. Over the weekend, I used 800 on my Canon Digital Rebel with only 6MP and I think it did better than the G7.

I was surprised too, but the only other digital camera I've used is my D70s. The G7 does very well at ISO 400 and under, all things considered. But my D70s beats it hands down when it comes to ISO 800 or 1600. The D70s is very usable at those ISOs, as long as you're not shooting landscapes and don't mind applying some noise reduction. I suspect your Rebel is very similar.

Paul

[Junebug32]

You need some pictures of snow. We have about 12 to 14 inches and it is still coming....

I have been using strictly the sports mode. The ISO is usually about 200. I have used the manual setting using the ISO 800 but too much noise. Don't like it, not for a gym.
The aperture in sports mode is 3.2 and the shutter speed usually run 1/45 to 1/60. Is this good or not?

The pictures I saw were very good I thought (I noticed the noise) but none of them were action pictures. I can take fairly good still pictures but have noticed lately that the ones I zoom in on ( like outdoors, I have a 10X zoom) are not as sharp as they used to be. I was told cameras wear out, at a camera shop. Maybe he was just trying to sell me the camera.

I guess I am getting a little confused. Maybe the EOS400 will go on sale later. But if I do go that way I am getting the 70mm-200mm f2.8 lense for it.

I was hoping the G7 would give some better action pictures and I liked the stabilizer bit on it. I know I am not holding the camera as still as I should and I do have a monopod but it is a nuisance to drag along.
I would like to say that most of the pictures I took of basketball, I was sitting high up in the bleachers. And for the football pictures, I was at the 50yard line and way up in the stands. I had to zoom in quite a bit to get my grandson ( he was the quarterback).

June

[poker]

Here's a shot taken with an older Canon Digital Rebel 6MP using ISO800. These shots had minimal processing.

Be aware that if you get a 70-200 f/2.8 lens....the lens will probably weigh more than the Canon Rebel Body in any version (Rebel, XT, XTi). You may need a monopod more than half the time in low lighting conditions...unless you get IS. IS will weigh even more and cost more.

[photophorous]

You need some pictures of snow. We have about 12 to 14 inches and it is still coming....

I do need some snow. It almost hit 80 degrees here yesterday. I prefer the cold.

I have been using strictly the sports mode. The ISO is usually about 200. I have used the manual setting using the ISO 800 but too much noise. Don't like it, not for a gym.
The aperture in sports mode is 3.2 and the shutter speed usually run 1/45 to 1/60. Is this good or not?

Shutter speeds of 1/45 and 1/60 are a little slow for shooting sports. You need shutter speeds closer to 1/125 or higher just to freeze the motion of the players. Also, the more powerful your zoom, the faster the shutter needs to be, because every little shake of your hand gets magnified by the lens. Using higher ISO settings would allow faster shutter speeds. For example, at a given aperture setting and the same lighting conditions, if ISO 200 gives you a shutter speed of 1/60, ISO 400 would give you a shutter speed of 1/125 and ISO 800 would give you a shutter speed of 1/250. So, I think ISO 400-800 is more along the lines of what you need to get sharp clear photos.

The pictures I saw were very good I thought (I noticed the noise) but none of them were action pictures. I can take fairly good still pictures but have noticed lately that the ones I zoom in on ( like outdoors, I have a 10X zoom) are not as sharp as they used to be.

The photos I posted were intended to show you what kind of noise you should expect at different ISO settings. That's unrelated to the subject matter. It would look the same regardless of whether or not your shooting action or still lifes.

The reason your still pictures are not sharp when you zoom in close is most likely because the shutter speeds are too slow. Like I mentioned above, the more you magnifiy the image (zoom in) the more little vibrations in your hands affect the picture. A 10X zoom is a lot of magnification, so you'll need a fast shutter speed or a tripod to get a sharp image, even if the subject is still.

I was told cameras wear out, at a camera shop. Maybe he was just trying to sell me the camera.

Cameras do wear out, but that just sounds like a sales pitch to me. I think your problems are more related to slow shutter speeds that are a result of your cameras high ISO limitations.

I was hoping the G7 would give some better action pictures and I liked the stabilizer bit on it. I know I am not holding the camera as still as I should and I do have a monopod but it is a nuisance to drag along.

Image stabalization is a fantastic feature, but you must realize it won't help freeze the action of the players. It only helps prevent bluring from your hands shaking. Same is true for a monopod or tripod. You'll still need about 1/125 or high shutter speeds to prevent the players and ball from blurring when they're in motion.

Almost any Digital SLR would give good results at the higher ISO values that you need to get faster shutter speeds. But, I think the G7 would do better than your Kodak.

I hope this is helpful and I didn't just confuse you more.

Paul

[Junebug32]

Here is a question. I have used the manual settings on my camera. I set the aperture for 2.8, shutter speed for 125 and 250 and have not had good luck with it. Reason I use sports mode? I can catch the action better. Why? What am I doing wrong? I took a picture of a small windmill with the wind blowing quite strong. It was an outside picture. I set the shutter speed for 500. I stopped the action just like that.! I got all excited about it and then,,,,huh,,, was really disappointed. Why not in a gym.
My grandson is blurred when he is up in the air but the other players are clear......
Basketball season is over with (our weather has cancelled everything) but there is next year and I can't practice any more........
By the way, we still are having high winds, snow, blocked roads, no school, and whatever else goes with it!!!!
I really appreciate all the info you have given me. Thanks much. Oh yes. I planned to get the Sigma lenses. The reviews say it is good and much less money.

June

[photophorous]

Here is a question. I have used the manual settings on my camera. I set the aperture for 2.8, shutter speed for 125 and 250 and have not had good luck with it. Reason I use sports mode? I can catch the action better. Why? What am I doing wrong? I took a picture of a small windmill with the wind blowing quite strong. It was an outside picture. I set the shutter speed for 500. I stopped the action just like that.! I got all excited about it and then,,,,huh,,, was really disappointed. Why not in a gym.
My grandson is blurred when he is up in the air but the other players are clear......
Basketball season is over with (our weather has cancelled everything) but there is next year and I can't practice any more........
By the way, we still are having high winds, snow, blocked roads, no school, and whatever else goes with it!!!!
I really appreciate all the info you have given me. Thanks much. Oh yes. I planned to get the Sigma lenses. The reviews say it is good and much less money.

June

Hi June,

I can't say exactly what shutter speed you need to freeze action, because it depends on how fast the subject is moving. I don't have enough experience with that kind of shooting, but if the players are still blurred at 125 or 250, you'll just have to bump it up to 500 or higher. All the sports mode is probably doing is making sure the shutter speeds stay as high as possible (given whatever amount of light is available), but it doesn't know exactly how fast your subject is moving either. If the sports mode is working for you, look and see what shutter speeds and ISO settings are being selected by the camera. If it's not working in the Gym, but it works outside, that is most likely because the camera isn't capable of shooting at high enough ISO values to allow for high enough shutter speeds, due to the low light in the gym. There is MUCH more light available when you shoot outside in the daytime, even in the shade.

I don't have any experience with Sigma lenses, but I have done some research on the 70-200 f2.8 and it seems to get very good reviews.

Good luck,
Paul

[rovowen]

Here is a question. I have used the manual settings on my camera. I set the aperture for 2.8, shutter speed for 125 and 250 and have not had good luck with it. Reason I use sports mode? I can catch the action better. Why? What am I doing wrong? I took a picture of a small windmill with the wind blowing quite strong. It was an outside picture. I set the shutter speed for 500. I stopped the action just like that.! I got all excited about it and then,,,,huh,,, was really disappointed. Why not in a gym.
My grandson is blurred when he is up in the air but the other players are clear......
Basketball season is over with (our weather has cancelled everything) but there is next year and I can't practice any more........
By the way, we still are having high winds, snow, blocked roads, no school, and whatever else goes with it!!!!
I really appreciate all the info you have given me. Thanks much. Oh yes. I planned to get the Sigma lenses. The reviews say it is good and much less money.

June

I'm not the most knowledgable to give a lot of advice and love all the comments that all have given here. But I did notice that you said that some players were in focus and some not. You may go back and look at several that are this way and see if the camera is focusing on these players and not your Grandson.
I shot a lot of gym shots and most I hate. Using a Canon 20D with mult-focus points, I found out that some of the focus points were focusing on other players and even the wall. I thought that the problem was me. Of course, most still is.
You may want to make sure this is not part of the problem. Not saying this would be the only problem as others have mentioned. Just wanted to mention it.

Newbie Here
rovowen

[danno]

I have seen a lot of pictures from the G7 inside gyms at basketball games... the pictures themselves look quite good exposure wise, but they are either really grainy or the players are blurred due to low shutter speeds. I would really suggest going with a DSLR if not just for the performance differences, for the better quality image.