What does it take to get a simple comment in the critique section?

This has happened to me several times now and to be honest it is quite disheartening as a hobbiest to post something that you really like and get no comments on it whatsoever....not even negative. Now I suppose I should simply accept it as no news is good news....but thats not the point of posting it for critique now is it?

I don't post pictures for critique often anymore because of the lack of comments I get. I now tend to stick to the nature forum or the sports forum as I do get comments there and they are always helpful regardless of whether they are negative or positive. When I honestly need an opinion of an image that doesn't fit in either of the above categories I have no where left to turn but the critique forum. Then I get nothing.

When I read the critique forum I will almost always post something that I like or dislike about the image that I am viewing. I am not a pro, never have claimed to be, most likely never will, but I do have 35 years of image processing skills due to the fact that my eyes have not stopped working for the entirity of my life. I know what it is that I like and dislike, and I have no problems telling someone. To be completely honest I think it is either rud or arrogant to not post a comment since that is what I have been asked to do by being there.

My feelings on critiques are very simple: tell the person your true feelings about it and why. If they don't like my answer well hopefully they have seen anothier view point that may make them approach the subject a little differently next time. If not well then maybe my opinion differs so greatly that I am way out of line with the rest of the world....well then, so be it.... can't say as I blame the rest of the world.

Remember when you are looking at the critique forum that the people on the other side of the world are asking you for your opinion, not necessarily your expertise, and your feelings about something that they have put a lot of time and effort into. Imagine how it feels to see your work posted and have no idea what anyone thinks about the image because no one said anything.

And lastly, keep shooting no matter what anyone says or doesn't say. If you had fun taking the image and it brings back a memory or a feeling of something special to you ... then don't worry about what someone said about it, snap shot or not it is your image and the feelings it brings back or the memories you have captured are still and weill always be yours to remember.

/rant off

Jaedon.....it took me a long time to get past the very thing you mention. I was wondering just why nobody cared to comment. Some folks live by the adage "If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all", some subscribe to the thought that if a picture is well done, then no critique is necessary. A lot of folks just want to see as many photos as they can in the limited time they have on line, or just feel they aren't 'qualified' to make a critique. Has nothing to do with you or your work. Eventually I came to grips with all of that, and realized that not every photo I post requires comment. Still--you want to know what people think, and whether they can help you improve.
John

Yeah once in a while I'll go through the forum and hunt down posts with 0 or 1 replies and make a point to comment on it.

I've gotten as far as page 4 finding 0-reply-threads with incredible pictures in them.

a straight forward nicley taken picture that isnt arty-crafty posted by someone who isnt part of the forum hierarchy is most likely to get no comment..

a simple "i like it" is against the rules.. the forum is very cliquey as well.. some folks get lots of pats on the back some get no comment..

its a cosy little club of regular posters and it shows..

if u dont fit in with "consensus" u soon give up and go away.. the "consensus" being the common opinion of the little group that inhabit and control the place.. lets all get along with each other and dont rock the boat being the orders of the day..

not a very effective environment for genune critique.. but forums are funny places.. and a consensus oppinon is never a "correct" one..

i have stopped posting images and offer little comment.. soon i will go away completely.. and the "group" will think good riddance.. he he he

trog

a straight forward nicley taken picture that isnt arty-crafty posted by someone who isnt part of the forum hierarchy is most likely to get no comment..

a simple "i like it" is against the rules.. the forum is very cliquey as well.. some folks get lots of pats on the back some get no comment..

its a cosy little club of regular posters and it shows..

trog

Amen trog.

Jaedon, it has been that way at least since I first signed on, nearly 2 years ago. As others have stated, and I think you already know it is not a sign of anything meaningful.

A "solution" to this is fairly simple, and far more rewarding than any forum. I do really enjoy these forums for the most part. Anyway, find a photography club in your area. The club will have critique sessions, workshops, field trips, and competitions. You will likely meet those at your skill level, as well as complete beginners, and a few working pros. Along the way, you'll likely make some great friends. The dues are usually around $25 a year, and our club meets 2 times a month.

Below is the link to your local chapter.
http://www.torontocameraclub.com/index.htm

Yeah once in a while I'll go through the forum and hunt down posts with 0 or 1 replies and make a point to comment on it.

I've gotten as far as page 4 finding 0-reply-threads with incredible pictures in them.

You're a good guy mr.Yuck.

I used to feel like Jaedon, Then I realized if I'm having fun...Everything falls into place.I lowered my expectations, Learn from reading more of the images that are critiqued.
Good thread :thumbsup:
Rick

Well I am glad to see I am not the only person who feels this way. I didn't want to slam anyone or make people feel that they HAVE to post a critique but it is definitely nice to hear something when you have taken the time and thought and effort into an image and have asked for others opinions.

I know at first I was too shy to post a critique but I found that the more I did and the more I thought about what I liked and didn't like about someone else's image it made me a better photographer by not making those same mistakes when shooting something later on. The simple fact is that if you say what it is that you like or don't like out loud (or in type in this case) it resonates within your own head and is more likely to help you make the same corrections later when you are faced with a similar situation.

Some folks live by the adage "If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all", some subscribe to the thought that if a picture is well done, then no critique is necessary. A lot of folks just want to see as many photos as they can in the limited time they have on line, or just feel they aren't 'qualified' to make a critique.

I used to feel that way... but everyone is qualified when giving an opinion. If you have one, please share it, you will feel better in the long run as will the original poster. (not directed at you personally i am using your comments for example)

Payn - Thanks for the info. I will definitely look them up as I recently left another photography club due to internal politics and I did not want that to Jade my feelings on Photography as a whole.

For what it's worth, even some of the photographs I post go without comment, I don't know it's because my stuff is a little different or what.

The one thing I know about critiquing photography, art, etc, is that it requires somewhat of a relationship and trust. And the best way to do that in this type of environment is to comment on other people's work. You said it yourself, that at first you were shy, which is OK, but it probably took some time for you to step beyond yourself and make that first comment. And again, in this type of environment a lot of people prefer to come here in anonymity and learn, which is also OK, but they won't get as much in their anonymity.

I would also echo what Rick said, give it time and lower your expecations just a little, I think if you look at the photographs you first posted versus your most current ones, I am sure you'll see more improvement than you think.

One more thing, I know your intentions and the others that has posted so far are great and I for one am thankful for that, but for anyone else that may read this post, please don't turn this in to a flame war or anything like that, that's not what this community is about.

Brian
:thumbsup:

Just keep trying. I am convinced that I am the reigning thread killer. Once I chime in, it dies. No biggy though, read, learn, keep posting and eventually you'll get used to it. We all have in our own time.

It is strange but feel it is no popularity contest either. I have seen Tunas pictures get absoulutly no comments one time and then dozens on others. I have seen newbies post and get featured photos. It is natural to make friends everywhere you go. But I still don't feel obligated to comment on everyones work and hope that works both ways. Sometimes I just don't have anything constructive to add or someone else already has and I don't feel repeating what someone else has already mentioned.
I think the key is not to get discourged and keep posting, and critique others as well. That's what I did and will continue to do. I have thought about photography classes ,but why. I feel I have improved my skills very much here in these forums. Personaly I will try and critique more so keep'em coming guys and don't give up. From a personal stand point I enjoy all of your pictures and am glad you share them. I learn as much just looking at your pictures as reading a comment.
Greg

I think many of us who visit the critique forum could make a little more effort at times. However, we all use the forum in different ways. For myself, I really do look at virtually every image that is posted there. I don't always critique because a) someone has already said what I would have said, b) it is outside my field (eg portraits rarely get a comment from me) and I don't feel able to comment sensibly, or c) sometimes the image does nothing for me one way or the other (I tend to comment on images that interest me, good or bad).

The point has been well made though that, even if I don't comment all the time, I still get a great deal out of just looking and reading comments people have made.

Cheers
Mike

i have stopped posting images and offer little comment.. soon i will go away completely.. and the "group" will think good riddance

Nope. Not good riddance, we didnt notice the other 99 trogs, but you stand out from the rest. Start posting more, I notice that I see far too few images from some of the more active members, especially the ones that give honest critique.

I admit, I'm guilty of the simple "I like it's" I do try to make a point of saying what I like about a picture.

I've noticed that it helps to say in your original post what you're looking for critique on. IE: "should I have backed up, should I level the horizon or keep it crooked for effect?" etc.

Sometimes I'll see that the forum gets no activity whatsoever for hours on end, and then boom, 8 new images are posted by 8 different users and this kind of gets overwhelming.

I am convinced that I am the reigning thread killer.
Well this thread will prove you wrong eh? :P

You're a good guy mr.Yuck.

This I know :cool: *sigged*

..

i have stopped posting images and offer little comment.. soon i will go away completely.. and the "group" will think good riddance.. he he he

trog

I am afraid you are wrong Trog, I have learned much from you and you will be sorely missed.
Greg

I have come acrooss pictures where I left a "Like it but I don't know why" just because an inage cought my eye. I have been replied to "Don't post comments like these then". The picture 9 times out of 10 just looked good to me and I just couldn't put my finger on it. Also I have left some negative feedback on a few and got slammed, well they asked didn't they? People well take a picture of there car bumper ( I do too ) and post it. What do you say to a no feeling "wish I wouldn't clicked on that one" picture?

Well I am glad my thread has caused a bit of a stir and yet has not degraded into a flame war (I was a little bit worried about that but I know the community here is above that for the most part) as mtbrian also seemed to be wary of.

What I wanted to do, and I hope I have achieved, is to raise the awareness that the people who are posting for critique are looking for something...anything...in regards to their image both positive and negative. I know it's hard to give negative feedback but if you give the good news/bad news scenarios I find it a lot easier to give as well as take.

Thanks everyone for you contributions to this thread.... I hope there's more to come too.

Jay

What does it take to get a simple comment in the critique section?

This has happened to me several times now and to be honest it is quite disheartening as a hobbiest to post something that you really like and get no comments on it whatsoever....not even negative. Now I suppose I should simply accept it as no news is good news....but thats not the point of posting it for critique now is it?

I don't post pictures for critique often anymore because of the lack of comments I get. I now tend to stick to the nature forum or the sports forum as I do get comments there and they are always helpful regardless of whether they are negative or positive. When I honestly need an opinion of an image that doesn't fit in either of the above categories I have no where left to turn but the critique forum. Then I get nothing.

When I read the critique forum I will almost always post something that I like or dislike about the image that I am viewing. I am not a pro, never have claimed to be, most likely never will, but I do have 35 years of image processing skills due to the fact that my eyes have not stopped working for the entirity of my life. I know what it is that I like and dislike, and I have no problems telling someone. To be completely honest I think it is either rud or arrogant to not post a comment since that is what I have been asked to do by being there.

My feelings on critiques are very simple: tell the person your true feelings about it and why. If they don't like my answer well hopefully they have seen anothier view point that may make them approach the subject a little differently next time. If not well then maybe my opinion differs so greatly that I am way out of line with the rest of the world....well then, so be it.... can't say as I blame the rest of the world.

Remember when you are looking at the critique forum that the people on the other side of the world are asking you for your opinion, not necessarily your expertise, and your feelings about something that they have put a lot of time and effort into. Imagine how it feels to see your work posted and have no idea what anyone thinks about the image because no one said anything.

And lastly, keep shooting no matter what anyone says or doesn't say. If you had fun taking the image and it brings back a memory or a feeling of something special to you ... then don't worry about what someone said about it, snap shot or not it is your image and the feelings it brings back or the memories you have captured are still and weill always be yours to remember.

/rant off

Ask an opinion and that is what you'll get. Say here is my volume of work, this IS what I do...Period. You'll get respect. An opinion is just that, nothing more nothing less. It sets the precedent for a different paradigm. It's your choice. Either you believe in yourself and who you are or you don't. It's your choice.

A couple of years ago I 'ranted' much the same way. In addition to my earlier comment I think people sometimes forget that we all need the constructive criticizm or critique in order to improve. Once I got those, I was able to learn and improve. I started to think more about composition, exposure, and how photos express a point of view.
John

The same has happened to me with last two images I posted in critique. Got one comment each.
I comment on some and not others, depending on if I feel I have something to offer from my bumbling amateur point of view.
I go through them all to see what others have said as this helps me learn and looking at all the images critically helps me learn, too, as I can apply what I think is good/bad to my own.
It does get discouraging when one gets little or no response.

Jaedon:

I would agree with Payne's recommendation that you check out your local camera club. They often tend to have people that have years of experience in Critique at a very professional level.

As has been pointed out, there is a tremendous range here from beginners to pros and throughout all ranges there is even more variation in the area of Critique. Personal likes and dislikes have very little to do with Critique, unless you have seen and looked closely at a considerable number of photos and can explain why you like or dislike them. As John has also explained numerous times, saying that you like or dislike a photo, does NOT help the photographer improve their work. At the same time, I have to say that a photo with no subject or no centre of interest is rather difficult to improve as is one with exposure or focus problems that are not fixable.

It is also rather sad, that some posters react badly when for example you honestly point out that after close examination, you cannot spot any colour cast or whatever. The same for those who cannot seem to deal with a contrary opinion without characterizing it as flames or whatever. Why have a Critique forum at all, when so few people know anything at all about the process as it is done in an advanced amateur or professional venue? Perhaps it should be renamed as something else to please whatever some photographers and moderators want it to be.

This is my opinion. I would prefer not to hear less than intelligent characterizations of it as something else.

Ronnoco

Very well stated Ronnoco. I am in 100% agreement.

Our club critiques are often carried out by art professors/curators, working pro photographers, and the like. It is a completely different experience to ANY online forum.

Our club critiques are often carried out by art professors/curators, working pro photographers, and the like. It is a completely different experience to ANY online forum.

There in lies the difference...
Doing this in person is always better, that way you are able to gauge a person's emotional feeling as well as all of the stuff.
You can hear the tone in their voice, see their facial expression, etc.
But if you can say something constructive online, you at least have a place to start.
Brian

it has been said that opinions are like ass-holes.. everybody has one..

which does kinda devalue them somewhat.. i love forums and have spent lots of time on them over the past few years.. i thought all the answers to all the questoned could easily be answered..

but i am becoming disillusioned with them mainly because of the "consensus" opinion thing that drives most of them..

some guy asks a simple question he gets five different answers.. one answer might well be the only correct answer but the need to remain friendly and the consensus opinion factor will always guarantee that the correct answer is lost amonst the dross..

sadly the dross by far outnumber the quality.. any attempt to prove the dross to be what it is will result in alienation by consensus and the fun soon goes out of it.. to be right too often isnt allowed.. even if u are.. he he

as oscar wilde was known to have said.. "the majority.. apart from being right.. is invariably wrong"..

forums are all about the majority and keeping the majority happy.. and the majority all have an ass-hole and an opinion..

perhaps the internet is just another reiteration of gods tower of babel curse.. :)

trog

I have come acrooss pictures where I left a "Like it but I don't know why" just because an inage cought my eye. I have been replied to "Don't post comments like these then". The picture 9 times out of 10 just looked good to me and I just couldn't put my finger on it. Also I have left some negative feedback on a few and got slammed, well they asked didn't they? People well take a picture of there car bumper ( I do too ) and post it. What do you say to a no feeling "wish I wouldn't clicked on that one" picture?

I agree with what you say Tyson. For the most part if you sell a picture to the general public they aren't going to critique it from a professional stand point. They are just going to see a picture they like and buy it. So I enjoy critiques from all levels of photographers.
You also have to understand to that if you put up a picture of a flower, how many critiques should you expect? But if you put up landscape with a lot of elements going on you are naturally going to get more critiques.
I think that for every picture you post if you critique five everyone would be happier.
Greg

You also have to understand to that if you put up a picture of a flower, how many critiques should you expect? But if you put up landscape with a lot of elements going on you are naturally going to get more critiques.
Greg

Greg, I honestly do not understand how you come to this. Floral photography is still sought after by galleries, many publications, home decorators, and private buyers. It deserves the same attention to detail to sell in these markets. Therefore, it deserves the same attention and respect as any other photo. Remember, critique is used to address the technical aspects as well. In real critique, the mention of the subject is typically if it contains a technical flaw (i.e. not obvious, out of focus), or is not clearly defined.

I can certainly imagine one could critique a floral in the following manner:

-- The colors are wonderful, as is your composition. However, I find the depth of field too shallow to give the subject any real impact. Perhaps stopping down another 2 stops would have provided a stronger image.--

Doesn't matter what that subject was. Not trying to give you a hard time, just giving an example.


Brian, I do not mean by any measure to insult anyone or make any forum seem unworthy. That is why I capitalized the word ALL. The forum has it's place, and it helped me alot. The reply was simply to offer a solution to the OP, based on personal experience.

Many people don't want a critique, they want to be praised. Too much butt kissing on the critique forums. Many are too sensitive and/or defensive to listen to critiques unless they are written in the most eloquent and tactful way possible. I'm not going to spend 30 minutes writing up a critique when some other poster that didn't even post the original photo will call my critique rubbish and tell the original photographer not to listen to others, etc, blah blah.

Not everyone is like this, but there's enough of it that I don't bother too much any more.

a straight forward nicley taken picture that isnt arty-crafty posted by someone who isnt part of the forum hierarchy is most likely to get no comment..

a simple "i like it" is against the rules.. the forum is very cliquey as well.. some folks get lots of pats on the back some get no comment..

its a cosy little club of regular posters and it shows..

if u dont fit in with "consensus" u soon give up and go away.. the "consensus" being the common opinion of the little group that inhabit and control the place.. lets all get along with each other and dont rock the boat being the orders of the day..

not a very effective environment for genune critique.. but forums are funny places.. and a consensus oppinon is never a "correct" one..

i have stopped posting images and offer little comment.. soon i will go away completely.. and the "group" will think good riddance.. he he he

trog

Exactly what trog said!

Just keep trying. I am convinced that I am the reigning thread killer. Once I chime in, it dies. No biggy though, read, learn, keep posting and eventually you'll get used to it. We all have in our own time.

Ha, I thought I was the reigning thread killer. :P

Tim

How about we talk about some solutions here, instead of talking about the problem.
What can be done so that people are more willing to give better critiques?
Brian

How about we talk about some solutions here, instead of talking about the problem.
What can be done so that people are more willing to give better critiques?
Brian

The PR website could come up with a built in 'judge by numbers' for photos submitted for critique. The tool will will be based on a few basic concepts and all one has to do it pick a number on a scale. No need to type and it's more simple yet more productive than saying, "I like it, it's nice."

It's would be questions based on "RULES" of course.

I know. I know. Technical modifications to the site are easier said than done.

How about we talk about some solutions here, instead of talking about the problem.
What can be done so that people are more willing to give better critiques?
Brian

The Critique forum should have a link to easily show a list of all the zero critiques at one click. I've occasionally looked for zero critique photos and try to make a fair opinion. I do it hoping some would do the same for my zero critique photos.

The PR website could come up with a built in 'judge by numbers' for photos submitted for critique. The tool will will be based on a few basic concepts and all one has to do it pick a number on a scale. No need to type and it's more simple yet more productive than saying, "I like it, it's nice."

It's would be questions based on "RULES" of course.

I know. I know. Technical modifications to the site are easier said than done.

I for one, and I believe John feels the same way, have never liked any kind of rating format.
I feel that by giving a rating it makes things even worse.
For one, it's easier than actually saying something constructive and two you'll have people who will be number obessed.
Brian

One more thing....

Photos with ZERO critiques (http://forums.photographyreview.com/forumdisplay.php?f=30&daysprune=-1&order=asc&sort=replycount)

Let's start practicing what we are 'trying' to preach. Click on the link and give a decent critique to a zero reply. There's only about 300 post going back to 2004. Should be easy. I DARE YOU!!!!!!! :D : D

I for one, and I believe John feels the same way, have never liked any kind of rating format.
I feel that by giving a rating it makes things even worse.
For one, it's easier than actually saying something constructive and two you'll have people who will be number obessed.
Brian

Very possible. Having both shouldn't hurt. Those who are inclined to give a substantial critque will post regardless. Those at a loss for words will click the scale. Its might be good or bad.

A good example is the Gallery section. There is a place to post a critique and score. As we all know the scoring part is barely used at all in the Gallery. Oh well, scratch that idea :idea:

I think that for ever picture you post you should critique five. I think that would cover it. I certainly don't think that it is a club. I have seen many newbies here lately and some have gotten featured photo.
Greg

I think that for ever picture you post you should critique five. I think that would cover it. I certainly don't think that it is a club. I have seen many newbies here lately and some have gotten featured photo.
Greg
Agreed, or maybe 3, since that number isnt so daunting and it's a lot better than just one.

I almost dug up a thread from last july yesterday that had 0 replies, but figured that would be confusing for the poster... "wait...I dont remember posting this" :eek:

One more thing....

Photos with ZERO critiques

Let's start practicing what we are 'trying' to preach. Click on the link and give a decent critique to a zero reply. There's only about 300 post going back to 2004. Should be easy. I DARE YOU!!!!!!! : D
Hehehe, dug up one from '04.

Agreed, or maybe 3, since that number isnt so daunting and it's a lot better than just one.


That's a good strategy, I try to follow that myself at least one or two for eveyone I post.
Brian

Very possible. Having both shouldn't hurt. Those who are inclined to give a substantial critque will post regardless. Those at a loss for words will click the scale. Its might be good or bad.

A good example is the Gallery section. There is a place to post a critique and score. As we all know the scoring part is barely used at all in the Gallery. Oh well, scratch that idea :idea:

I have seen that on other forums and it ultimately turns in to a numbers game, and that does no good whatsoever.
Criticism involves thoughts and ideas not numbers.
Brian
:thumbsup:

"How about we talk about some solutions here, instead of talking about the problem.
What can be done so that people are more willing to give better critiques?
Brian"

befoe u can discuss things to do about a problem.. u have to get consensus agreement that there is a problem.. then u have to define the problem.. then the real work starts u have to get consensus opinion on the answer to the predefined problem..

the bottom line being that its all down to the "management".. there have been several "critiques" of the critique forum recently.. i think its time the "management" had look at it and made some alterations or not as they see fit..

my major problem is i dont even know what it is i am supposed to be commenting on.. a photograph in its simple terms or some piece of photoshop wizardry.. natural or supernatural.. realistic or simply eye catching.. he he

i personally have lost the plot here.. i am quite prepared to buck the consensus.. but too much boat rocking causes me problems.. i feel guilty.. he he

trog

"

my major problem is i dont even know what it is i am supposed to be commenting on.. a photograph in its simple terms or some piece of photoshop wizardry.. natural or supernatural.. realistic or simply eye catching.. he he

i personally have lost the plot here.. i am quite prepared to buck the consensus.. but too much boat rocking causes me problems.. i feel guilty.. he he

trog

I for one welcome your critiques and hope you don't take your marbles and leave in a huff. I personally have learned from you and that is what I am here for. Because of you I think harder in the field to cut down as much PP as possible and my pictures have improved in quailty. I also hope you post more pictures. I remember most that I have seen. I have enjoyed looking at your work and have also learned from that too. I now own a grad filter thanks to you. I draw knowledge from all sources so I for one hope you hang around.
If you think back I for one have critiqued many of your pictures. I know where you are coming from but you have to remember that it is a critique forum and not a debate forum. Teach don't preach.
Greg

What does it take to get a simple comment in the critique section?

This has happened to me several times now and to be honest it is quite disheartening as a hobbiest to post something that you really like and get no comments on it whatsoever....not even negative. Now I suppose I should simply accept it as no news is good news....but thats not the point of posting it for critique now is it?

I don't post pictures for critique often anymore because of the lack of comments I get. I now tend to stick to the nature forum or the sports forum as I do get comments there and they are always helpful regardless of whether they are negative or positive. When I honestly need an opinion of an image that doesn't fit in either of the above categories I have no where left to turn but the critique forum. Then I get nothing.

When I read the critique forum I will almost always post something that I like or dislike about the image that I am viewing. I am not a pro, never have claimed to be, most likely never will, but I do have 35 years of image processing skills due to the fact that my eyes have not stopped working for the entirity of my life. I know what it is that I like and dislike, and I have no problems telling someone. To be completely honest I think it is either rud or arrogant to not post a comment since that is what I have been asked to do by being there.

My feelings on critiques are very simple: tell the person your true feelings about it and why. If they don't like my answer well hopefully they have seen anothier view point that may make them approach the subject a little differently next time. If not well then maybe my opinion differs so greatly that I am way out of line with the rest of the world....well then, so be it.... can't say as I blame the rest of the world.

Remember when you are looking at the critique forum that the people on the other side of the world are asking you for your opinion, not necessarily your expertise, and your feelings about something that they have put a lot of time and effort into. Imagine how it feels to see your work posted and have no idea what anyone thinks about the image because no one said anything.

And lastly, keep shooting no matter what anyone says or doesn't say. If you had fun taking the image and it brings back a memory or a feeling of something special to you ... then don't worry about what someone said about it, snap shot or not it is your image and the feelings it brings back or the memories you have captured are still and weill always be yours to remember.

/rant off

I'd have to agree. Sometimes I'm not only dissapointed at the fact that some of my photos have no or little critiques, but at the fact that there are always at least a couple postswith no or 1 or 2 comments all the way down the page, or on the next page.

What I usually do when I'm in the critique forum is look at the amount of comments on all of the photos. If there are 0-5 comments in the topic, I'll post what I think. I won't even comment in topics with more then 10 unless I feel something strong about the photo and no one else has covered it.

Also, if I ever post images of my own, I'll make sure to make at least 5 critiques.

I NEVER let a topic with 0 comments go, if I see that on the page(and if I come here and 0 comment posts exist) i'll immediately go into it and post something helpful.

Ok, back to work!:thumbsup:

"a critique forum and not a debate forum. Teach don't preach"

u are getting near the mark greg.. it goes like this.. if i ever make any comment i am prepared to back it up.. i believe in arriving at something vaguely resembling the truth.. five different opinions will never arrive at the correct opinion.. five different critique opinions with no doscussion as to which is wrong or which is right achieves nothing..

its impossible for a wise man to teach if all the puplis feel free to contradict the teacher and consider their own opinion just as valid as the teachers..

i am speaking purely hyperthetically.. but in the critique forum the wisest teacher in the world might as well keep his mouth shut.. his teachings would soon be drowned out by the consensus opinions of the pupils..

everyone has opinions,, but some opinions are worth more than others.. without some discussion its impossible to ever find out which opinions have value and which dont...

everyone just being allowed to chuck in their two cents worth without having to back up their opinions is the road to chaos..

so some discussion is needed.. the only people who benefit by a no discussion rule are those with no substance behind their opinions and a complete inability to back them up.. the wise teacher gives up in disgust and goes home.. he he he

perhaps we dont need to give the images a value number.. perhaps its the critics we need to give a value number to.. :)

i have offended enough forum members by not keeping my mouth shut.. i perhaps might have earned some respect by doing this but i have also earned some animosity.. at present i recon its about 50/50 between one and the other.. :) :)..

trog

"
everyone has opinions,, but some opinions are worth more than others.. without some discussion its impossible to ever find out which opinions have value and which dont...
This is an important point. Along with that we need to see photos by the people who are giving the opinions in order to be able to judge where they are coming from. I was recently happy to see a few pics from one of our more opinionated critiquors so folks can give the right amount of weight to his frequent opinions.

On the subject of not getting much response, I figure that I have a fairly successful shot if it doesn't get much attention. I don't have unlimited amounts of time for critiquing and usually only hit a few that have the most need for improvement and then if it's something different than the other critiquors have mentioned. I also comment on shots by friends that I've made here. I'm not going to apologize for that.

There are things that can be done to improve the chances of getting responses. Asking a specific question as you post is one. Having comparison shots is another. Polls can be popular and usually gather some comments too. I hope others will add to this list.

Another important thing in that forum is to acknowledge the effort that people put forth with your shots. It's surprising how many folks don't reply to suggestions made. Take a look at some of gahspidy's threads for a good example of how to do it. It's easy to comment on his photos because you know that it will be appreciated.

Another important thing in that forum is to acknowledge the effort that people put forth with your shots. It's surprising how many folks don't reply to suggestions made. Take a look at some of gahspidy's threads for a good example of how to do it. It's easy to comment on his photos because you know that it will be appreciated.

Excellent point. If someone goes to the trouble to write a good critique but the suggestions aren't even acknowledged, that person may be less likely to write more critiques in the future. Eventually if this happens enough, well...

One of my pet peeves (about critiques in general, not here) is the photographer defending their work against any suggestions. I actually gave up on the local camera club because there was a fair amount of this going on - more there than here from what I've seen. One night, a bit of discussion developed (hey, a pun!) around a flower shot that may have been more interesting from a different angle. I agreed (silently) but the photographer explained all the reasons of why they couldn't do anything other than what they did rather than try to see what the person giving the critique was seeing. Obviously, that person wasn't looking for a critique but was looking for praise. Shouldn't have brought it on critique night...

Plenty of good suggestions have been already mentioned about how to improve critiques. Even if everyone can critique two for every one you post, there will be an improvement.

One of my pet peeves (about critiques in general, not here) is the photographer defending their work against any suggestions.

Ditto on that, One should take the advise of the one critiqueing and move on. Everyone is intitled to their opinion. I have seen threads go round and round like a dog chasing his tail.
Greg

One of my pet peeves (about critiques in general, not here) is the photographer defending their work against any suggestions. I actually gave up on the local camera club because there was a fair amount of this going on - more there than here from what I've seen. . . . Obviously, that person wasn't looking for a critique but was looking for praise.
Prior to responding to the above quote, I'll say there has been lots of fascinating discussion in this post that I aim to add to or comment on later this evening!

Critique in any form does need acknowledgement I will certain agree. But in the formal sense of critique a 'defense' is one manner of response. That does not mean disagreeing with or ignoring the comments offered, but it may require that an additional piece of information be added so that the decision process that went into the photograph is clearer.

Journalistic photography almost all falls into that category, but its 'defense' or explanation is inherent in both style and that invariably it has a caption.

A good critique should weigh both the positive and negative aspects and in doing so hopefully will provide suggestions for improvement of failings of the image, and compliment and highlight the strengths in the piece under review. Praise and concern go hand in hand to build a good set of comments and lead to an effective critique.

Frequently the second part of critique is missed and confusion reigns that critical criticism is only negative and harsh.

I've got to get back to work!!

Critique in any form does need acknowledgement I will certain agree. But in the formal sense of critique a 'defense' is one manner of response. That does not mean disagreeing with or ignoring the comments offered, but it may require that an additional piece of information be added so that the decision process that went into the photograph is clearer.

And I agree that this is sometimes the case - journalism is a good example of that. My frustration is from the people who ask for a critique but really only want a pat on the back. With the example of the flower, it may be slightly difficult to get that different angle. You may get wet or dirty. You may have to come back later hoping for better light while the rest of the group eats dinner. Many of us understand how this works, and that every time you pick up a camera everything won't come together for an great shot.

I think part of the problem is that the person taking the shot may have been having a great time while out photographing, and they're not separating the tangible photograph from the intangible memory of that day. It's like constructive criticism on the shot is degrading their whole experience, but one really doesn't have anything to do with the other.

to be blunt none of us in the real world would ask a fool for advice..

in a critique forum where anyone can have their say with equal rights.. we are pretty much doing just that.. a fools paradise.. hey..

sadly the entire internet forum world is becoming just that.. a bunch of "happy" bunnies" all blathering away at the top of their voices and drowning out any vestige of wisdom..

try and point out the fool or precocious child for what he is and the whole bunch of "happy bunnies" come down on u like tons of bricks..

a bleak picture but after many years of forum activity its how i see things.. :) :)

a modern day Tower of Babel aint so far out.. he he he

trog

I agree that a little defense could be in order, If someone states the your picture is cropped to tight, they are unaware of distractions or difficult lighting. That being said I feel that some here belittle the critiquer letting them know of their inexperiance.
Greg

perhaps we should arrive at what we should be looking for..

my main points would be..

an eye for what makes a good picture..

good framing.. good composition..

artistic merit..

technical expertise..

overall image quality..

difficulty of obtaining the shot in the first place..

suitability for the shots intended purpose..

allowance should be made for the nature of the shot.. candid or carefully contrived..

####

my main negatives..

mickey mouse crops and overall poor image quality.. good for nothing except postage stamp sized critique posting

too much reliance on cropping in general..

too much reliance on post proccessing in general..

black and white used simply to add interest to an otherwise poor picture..

art being used to cover up poor photographic technque.. calling unacceptable digital noise "grain" for example..

###

my own bias cleary shows.. but just some ideas..

trog

One of my pet peeves (about critiques in general, not here) is the photographer defending their work against any suggestions. I actually gave up on the local camera club because there was a fair amount of this going on - more there than here from what I've seen. One night, a bit of discussion developed (hey, a pun!) around a flower shot that may have been more interesting from a different angle. I agreed (silently) but the photographer explained all the reasons of why they couldn't do anything other than what they did rather than try to see what the person giving the critique was seeing. Obviously, that person wasn't looking for a critique but was looking for praise. Shouldn't have brought it on critique night...


Yes, this is always a problem. I won't pretend I haven't done it, because I can think of more than one occasion where I have, and I think most others can as well. While egoism is the most obvious answer, hear me out on this theory. I think one of the main factors that lead to this defensive reaction is uncertainty about your shot and skills. Most talented photographers know to take comments with a grain of salt, but if something pops out at you, then take it and run with it. But at the same time they do not jump on someone for saying they don't like it, because many of the best photographers out there have plenty of people who don't like their work, and I think that this is where experience plays a part. Many people will just react that way before they come to the realization that photography (in my opinion) is meant to provoke emotion, and that people's emotional reactions are different. therefore, some people will like it, and some people won't, and that's just that. Many people think that everyone should like their work when that just isn't the case. And at the same time, you may be the only one who likes your work, but that doesn't mean you should stop doing it just because of negative reactions that you are getting. Live your life for yourself because if you live it for other people, what life are you going to have when those people finally disappear?

I know how Jaedon can feel. Being new to these forum, I very seldom give any critique of photos because I know that I am not truely qualified to tell someone else what is wrong with their pictures.
Of course, the subject of the picture can have an affect if you get comments. I know, if you take a picture of your cat, I probably won't make any comment on it. Oh, "cat lovers" don't slam me, for I do like cats. But on the other hand, if it is a picture of a rabbit. I may be one of the few to say something about it.
But do read when others critique a photo. I almost always go back to the picture and see what point they are trying to convey.
Newbie Here
rovowen

Jaedon, I'm sorry I did not notice this thread sooner. I don't get the time I would like to commit to the forums and when I do I am mostly in the critique forum.
Once in a while a thread like this comes up, usually from a new member, and your concerns and stated frustrations are valid.
Some good advice has been given I see by some members here already, but from my experience and observations throughout my time here I can tell you that the longer you stick around and keep active on the forum, the more responses you will probably receive on your threads. It's just human nature that people tend to need to get to know you and become more familiar with you and the responses will come.
I remember when I first joined the boards, I would sometimes have no comments on my threads and sometimes 1 or 2. This went on for quite a while until I was seen to become a regular on the forum and then the comments started to come more often. Now, sometimes I'm back to 1 or 2 comments, so go figure lol.
Chunk had some particuliarly good suggestions about posing a specific question, or starting a poll. I have seen him do both of those with his threads and I can tell you it sure works.
This forum belongs to all of us, we are all equals here. Do not get discouraged, just remain active and it will come.

btw, for anyone who feels that they don't comment because they do not feel they are worthy of critiquing a photo. . .thats ridiculous. Everyone's observations are important, worthy, and welcome by any member who posts pictures for critique. Whether the comments are simple, or highly technical and detailed. . .they are important. Period

gary with the greatest of respect u have pretty well just dismissed this entire thread as having no meaning at all.. :)

trog

I know how Jaedon can feel. Being new to these forum, I very seldom give any critique of photos because I know that I am not truely qualified to tell someone else what is wrong with their pictures.
Critique does not have to mean criticize. I have sometimes wished that the forum had been called Feedback. One reason that the forum is important to me is that the feedback that I get around home is usually praise, which may feel good but is useless for improving my work. I want honest opinions from other people, including yours. If you take the time to look at a photo that you like and then verbalize what it is that attracts you to it, that will help both the photographer and you.

Practice all you want on any of my photos...please.

"Critique does not have to mean criticize. I have sometimes wished that the forum had been called Feedback"

now that chunk.. is avery wise idea.. :)

its easier to say why u dont like something than why u do i think..

i would make a simple.. "i like it.. very nice" type comment without feeing the need to justify my likeing the image.. but that is basically against the rules..

i do feel the need to justify why i dont like an image thow.. if i dont know why i dont comment..

a few simple "i like it.. very nice" type comments would do the world of good for posters egos.. he he

trog

[quote=trog100now that chunk.. is avery wise idea.. :)

[/quote] Thanks...that was my ego booster for the day.

Jaedon .. this thread has had 500 or so hits. The last "rant" I did on Viewfinder (A little rant #2) got 1000 hits and 100 comments, or thereabouts.

Clearly, the way to get comments in the Critique forum is to put the word "rant" in the title! I suggest titles like "Ranting about some flowers", "A Rant about a tree in a field", or "Ranting about a B & W street scene" :p

Worth a try! :D

Cheers
Mike