Just thought as an off-topic discussion, to help keep in perspective with other parts of the world, that the price of Petrol has reached $5.30US a gallon ($1.55AU a Litre)here on the East Coast of Australia.

Would be interested in knowing what it has reached in other areas of the world as a comparison.

Do you believe that World Prices are fair and comparable with others around the world, or are we being taken to the cleaners by those that control the Oil Prices ?

Would be interested to know.

Here in Canada it's around 97 cents per litre...

My car is a Diesel, so that's what I pay attention to. I think standard grade 87 octane gasoline is a little less than Diesel lately. Here near (not in) Chicago, I'm paying about $2.30-ish for a gallon. When I bought the car two years ago, it was always $1.60, give or take .10 - very constant because truckers can just wait another 100 miles or so to fill up if one area is very expensive. So those of us driving the 50+ mpg Diesel cars benefited from it.:D

Here in the US, we've had it so cheap for so long that few people worry about it. That's a waste, so many people driving much bigger cars than they need. I was in England in '92 and prices there were so much higher than I was used to - maybe three times the money (this was in Brighton, much less than London). I have to admit that I haven't followed the reasoning behind the price surge that closely, but there are a lot of recent (past couple years, anyway) events that apparently contribute to that. How close are we to running out of a supply of oil? Have all other petroleum based products like plastics gone up that much too? Natural gas here has gone up at a faster rate than gasoline or Diesel.

I can see how prices in England would be so much higher because it's imported. I was in Houston, Texas a year ago and it was a little less than here at the time - home to lots of oil production and refining. But not that much different.

There's even a rather large difference within areas of each state... here in my state the difference between the lowest and highest (voluntarily reported) is nearly .40¢ per gallon.

It's about $2.35 us here in NE FLA. And with 2 trucks this family is going broke!

I would guess that fairness would really have little to do with it, because it is unfair to everybody. If it did then we would not have to spend a 1/3 of our pay checks just to get back and forth to work everyday. Though some countires are feeling it more than others. I have some very, very strong feelings on this subject that I will not go into, from opec to drilling anwar and the eastern coastline.

All I can say is I am going to get a good motorcycle and a raincoat, cuz it's to damn expensive to drive a car or truck anymore.

Interesting posts.

It's about $2.30 near DC, about $2.5 inside DC I think, and about $2.15 in the rural portions of Virginia.

From what I understand, the US government sudsidizes fuel prices here so we are arguably paying the difference from the rest of the world with our taxes. I am buying into oil and gas stocks at this time as they are doing well overall. It's a smart way to make your money back from the gas pump :)

Sorry to see it's happened for these reasons, but on a personal level I am glad to see that the new hybrid-engined cars are getting immensly popular here in the US. In metropolitan Washington DC I see several on the road everyday, growing in numbers. Down here in conservative Richmond they are rare.

Be interested to see what others have to say. Peter, is there an alternative-fuel vehicle explosion in Oz as well?

Rick

Nope there isn't because of there initial cost. Although there are 3 manufacturers now with them. I spent $2,500 on LPG conversion on my 12 year old Tarago, 11 years ago when LPG was cheap per litre, around $0.20, but now it is $0.60 but more in the 40-50 cent range majority of the time. Taxi's run fulltime on LPG, I have dual fuel LPG/Petrol, need to use both. There are some Buses that are running on Natural Gas here as well.

I can't understand why there isn't more input into alternative cars and getting the price cheaper overall to make them more interesting to customers. I can understand about development costs, but looking at the long term I think is better than looking short sighted as well.

We need to get the cars cleaner and the air cleaner or the world is just going to go more and more down hill over the next 10-30 years or so.

Even though Oil has dropped by $8US a gallon on the world market, Petrol is still very high here again, around $5US a gallon which just isn't right.

Peter, this all sounds very interesting to me however I am going to require some translation on this: "I spent $2,500 on LPG conversion on my 12 year old Tarago, 11 years ago when LPG was cheap per litre,"

Sorry I don't knwo what LPG or a Tarago are! I presume the latter is a car.

The only reason I can determine that there is little more being done to develop alternative fuel vehicles is that the Oil Empire is against it. Like it or not, there are special interest groups pulling weight on government officials in this country (and I can only imagine elsewhere) and of course Oil has more money lining its pockets than Hydrogen does! :rolleyes: It's come to this, the crucial point of oil prices, availability, wars, politics and public interest to get the ball rolling here. And even AT THAT the American car makers have dropped the ball! Oh, the irony! In the 1970's during the gas crisis here the American car makers were still pumping out big, boxey V8 cars from Detroit. Well, low and behold the Japanese came in with their Hondas and blew the American companys away, the American public ate it up and to this day the Americans are still trying to play catch-up to the level of quality and technology that the Japanese have spanked us with for 30 years now. Again! Honda and Toyota BOTH came out with hybrid gas/electric cars around the year 2000 or so. Spanked us again! American companies wer caught with their pants down, began scambling to catch up and only this year are we seeing the first American cars (and trucks!) being released with hybrid motors. It's embarrasing!

So I think the technology has been there for quite sometime. It's obvioulsy simply a matter of <i>desire.</i> The politicians had no desire to anger the oil companies by throwing money in alternative fuels, but now that the Japanese have spanked us and consumer demand for this technology is up - in other words, now that there's MONEY to be made - the American car companies are taking action. "We haven't had the technology until now." I don't buy that for one second. It's about <i>desire.</i>

I don't know if Ausland is subject to the same buerocracy as we are here god bless you if you are!

Rick

Rick,

I believe LPG is 'litre per gallon', the metric equivalent of MPG (miles per gallon). Wait, that doesn't make any sense. Ah, well I'll post it anyways for the humouros nature:p,

Jared

The real answer of LPG should be found somewhere on this site (http://www.acronymfinder.com/af-query.asp?String=exact&Acronym=LPG).

LPG stands for Liquid Petroleum Gas, think of your Bar-B-Q Gas bottle and make it a 60 litre (13 gallon) tank. $2,500Aus is around $1,900US in todays $$'s but back then it was more likely around $1,500US as the Aus $ is worth more now than it was then so really it should have cost me about $1,950Aus then. 1 Gallon is equivalent to 4.5 litres.

Basically it costs me roughly about $16Aus ($12US) to travel about 240Km (110 miles) city traffic as apposed to $53US to travel 159 miles on unleaded Petrol. Roughly.

A Tarago, is made by Toyota, is a People Mover, Sleek Looking. I know they have them in America I have seen them in the movies and on TV Shows.

The Van that was being driven in the Movie Carpool with Tom Arnold in it, you know the one where he kidnapps the father and children, drives through a mall and chased by Rhea Pearlman on a Cop cart, and ends at a sideshow carnival.

Pretty much what a Chrysler Voyager was probably modelled on.

I've been paying about $2.50 USD/gallon for Super Unleaded (92 octane)...Yikes. As a poor college student, it's putting a pretty big dent in my wallet. Why did I have to buy a car that takes Super???

LPG stands for Liquid Petroleum Gas AKA Propane over here. There are some companies working on this in the US too, but it's more for industrial use (fork lifts, been common for a long time). I think that's what most of the mail delivery trucks run on too.

There's an infrastructure problem with something like this in the States for big time use - there aren't many places that sell it, and nothing all night (like gas stations and truck stops).

Rick, it's too bad that high fuel prices are the only reason that hybrids are taking off right now, but that's what it takes sometimes. The only thing is, at highway speeds you're not really saving anything. If you drive a lot of hwy miles then you're going 60-70mph (or more :rolleyes:) and the very small gasoline engine just has to work that much harder.

I'm taking a break from working on my Diesel right now, getting ready for a road trip to Denver in a couple of weeks. I can get fuel 24 hours a day but only need it about every 6-700 miles, and won't have another oil change for 10,000 miles. Plus no ignition system to worry about (VW's biggest problem) or Hybrid batteries to replace some day. If I keep it around 70, I'll stay at 50mpg, too. Diesel exhaust does have a higher soot content than anything else, but 2006's Ultra Low Sulphur Diesel fuel mandate will help that. But it does have less CO2 than an equivalent gasoline engine which helps the greenhouse effect. Cold-weather starting isn't an issue anymore, either. These cars aren't for everyone, but I'm not going back to a gasoline car anytime soon! ;)

Penny,

Puts things into proportion eh?!:p I read somewhere that in most places beer is cheaper than milk now!

I wish it did run on water then I could just get it out of the tap and use that which is a site cheaper than bottled water. Penny, you can virtually double those prices for us here, with exchange and markup. The thing about Milk, the farmers get no where near that for their milk, it is just the stores that make the huge profits out of it.

You know Restraunts work the price out that it costs them to make a dish and then add 65% markup. Remember that next time you are eating out.

I don't anymore as I have lost all income now and can no longer afford to do just about anything. Any spare cash the wife has the girls get that for them which is a rarerity now. I know you aren't working either as well, so you feel my pain.

I'm lucky to be still on the Internet as it is.

Just thought as an off-topic discussion, to help keep in perspective with other parts of the world, that the price of Petrol has reached $5.30US a gallon ($1.55AU a Litre)here on the East Coast of Australia.

Would be interested in knowing what it has reached in other areas of the world as a comparison.

Do you believe that World Prices are fair and comparable with others around the world, or are we being taken to the cleaners by those that control the Oil Prices ?

Would be interested to know.
Here on the North Coast, it's been about $2.70 to $2.80 for REGULAR!!! That's per gallon, folks... 87 octane.
I keep hearing these "National Average" numbers and AAA figures on the Highest Gas Price in the Nation... the numbers are always lower than our prices here... it's 40-50 cents cheaper just over the border in Oregon. Lots of us drive up there to save on gas, since it's not that far. Do some sales-tax-free shopping as well and you've saved enough. In the meantime, my bike is getting used almost daily.
Politics don't matter to us up here-- we're so detached from the rest of the world that it's hard to stay in the know. (Though I insist on not being a mushroom-- you know, kept in the dark and fed ********) Our questions are not so much "Why is the state of the world making gas prices like this?" They're more like "How come we're getting shafted here but only a few miles away it's cheaper?" There's talk of local conspiracies and price gouging... the gas station owners insist that their costs are rising, but one of our County Supervisors says his own investigations say otherwise.
My car gets good mileage, but I guess that doesn't really matter in the big scheme of things-- we're still burning fossil fuels to get around, so it's a lose-lose situation anyway...

I talked with a friend yesterday. He works at a gas station in Oregon. He said they're paying $10 for 50 gallons of gas, and then selling it for $2.50 a gallon. Anyone can do the math on that. It equals "Ouch, Is that My Ass? I'm Getting Screwed In It!" :(

well i thought i might just add the british prices for petrol: 89pence per liter thats 1.74$usd
and then theres diesel: 93pence per liter : 1.86$usd

Struth Dyer that ain't cheap, evern more expensive than here in Australia. Nearly Double what is is a Litre here.

Just an update, even though Oil has gone under $50 a barrel on the world market, Petrol prices still remain quite high here, without much likely hood of dropping in the near future as well.

It really doesn't make sense compared to prices in the US being what they are, if it is a world controlled market price, (me thinks it is not the case).

if it is a world controlled market price, (me thinks it is not the case).
Same here. Prices go up a lot, then come back a little. The rise usually has to do with the price of crude, but the fall in price doesn't seem to have much to do with it. Being a commodity that the refineries are sitting on, maybe they have to sell off the expensive stuff they're sitting on before they can lower the price - or maybe I'm being optimistic. Regardless of what crude does, I don't think I'll ever see $1.60/US gal Diesel again.

I have been looking for this photo since I edited it this past Saturday. Left it at work on a machine and didn't load back into my notebook. This price per gallon lasted only a few hours.

Monday I paid $2.569 per gal for 11 gal of gas.$ 28.25. Today it's$ 3.109, or $34.20 for 11 gal. But don't worry, you can get a good deal on a Chevy Suburban!
Mark. :(

As if all the destruction of the hurricane wasn't enough!! Regular unleaded here is now $2.99 a gallon, and stations are slowly shutting down due to running out of fuel. I have a 300zx that gets 19 miles a gallon, and takes 93 octane ($3.61 a gallon)!! Time to get a second job so I can afford to go to work!

Well currently it has hit $4.455US a gallon down here in Australia for Unleaded Petrol, so still a long way to catch up to us here.

I do feel for everyone and the price of Petrol.

Fortunately for me I run LPG as well mostly which is $1.50US a gallon equivalent so I don't feel the pinch as much as the wife does with her Daewoo Lanos that she drives.

Well, Peter, we came a long way overnight!! It is now $5.87 for regular unleaded!!!!!!!! :eek: :eek: :eek:

Wow! That's incredible. I think it's about $3 or $3.50 here - I did hear on the news that it's $6 in some places in Georgia.

Aaaacccccckkkkkkkkkkkk - with a holiday weekend coming up.

Liz

Well, Peter, we came a long way overnight!! It is now $5.87 for regular unleaded!!!!!!!! :eek: :eek: :eek:

Yikes! That hurts!

Peter, I'm sure you heard about the hurricane earlier this week and it damaged many offshore drilling rigs in the Gulf of Mexico. A lot of our oil comes from here, so it's a huge effect on supply. That's driving prices up, but fortunately for me Diesel is still $2.59/gal as of yesterday. Not sure about today though...

Yikes! That hurts!

Peter, I'm sure you heard about the hurricane earlier this week and it damaged many offshore drilling rigs in the Gulf of Mexico. A lot of our oil comes from here, so it's a huge effect on supply. That's driving prices up, but fortunately for me Diesel is still $2.59/gal as of yesterday. Not sure about today though...

What I don't understand is how the prices went up within hours of Katrina making landfall. Certainly, the gasoline, already paid for, was in the gas station's tanks. They didn't have a chance to pay more for it yet, they just decided to cheat their customers.

And it won't come down that quickly after the refining capacity comes back on line, either...

I stand corrected: Gas 3.29, Diesel 2.91. Pretty happy about that 50mpg Diesel right now...

Yep I know about the Hurricane hitting etc. Thing is, we produce about 80% of our needs, but the price is tied into the world price so we suffer just like everyone else does when things go wrong. Hurricanes, wars, need to buy that new Lear Jet (for Saudi Prince), etc.

It is expected to get up to around around $5.40US a gallon here within the next few months, maybe even higher. As the economies are hit the Aussie $$ is going down as well, which impacts on everything as well around the world, Oil prices, Petrol Prices, Food Prices, etc as well. Just never seems to stop. But the rich never seem to feel the pinch do they.

Hope it gets better over there for everyone in the South. I head that Fats Domino is missing in New Orleans, what a shame that is, but then, wouldn't be the first musician to be lost in a Disaster would he.

Lets hope the predictions of deaths isn't anywhere near the level they are prediciting.

Remain safe and well everyone.

I keep trying to convice my hubby that we need to move back to the city to save money. Housing would be probably double, but we'd probably be able to get by on one car. I've been specifically not going anywhere so that I didn't have to drive.

adina ($38 to fill up my tank)

Well, it's $3.11 for regular here right now, just bought a few gallons for the weekend, before the prices go off the Richter. Someone predicted that we'll see $4+ by tomorrow, and it'll only go up from there. Ouch! My wallet-- it hurts!
I get around 30 mpg, but I'm thinking it's not enough. I'll take that 55 mpg hybrid right about now...

We've hit $3.26 here, but it was $3.19 in Milwaukee this morning.

adina

Evian Water 9 ox $1.49 = $21.19 per gallon. $21.19 for WATER -- and the buyers don't even know the source. (Evian spelled backwards is naive.)



In Paris right now a US gallon of gas is about $5.79. This is fairly typical for Europe. Most of the money goes on taxes. The government is trying to encourage people to be economical because:

1. We have to import the stuf
2. There is not an infinite supply and in maybe 30 years it will all be gone

Prices worldwide just increased by about 20% because China's gas usage is rocketing. Personally I use public transport as much as possible and I have a small, reasonably economical car (like in the picture but minus the stripes)

BTW Evian is in the French Alps near Geneva but even I had to look it up to be sure.

Charles

Hm, conversions will be ineteresting.

US Gallon 3.785 l
UK Gallon 4.546 l

1 € = £0.680
1 $US = £0.543
1 $AUS = £0.415
1 $CDN = £0.456

$6.64 per US gallon

Hm, conversions will be ineteresting.

US Gallon 3.785 l
UK Gallon 4.546 l

1 ? = ?0.680
1 $US = ?0.543
1 $AUS = ?0.415
1 $CDN = ?0.456

$6.64 per US gallon

You mean 4 star petrol is 95 pence/litre in the UK? Oh dear.

At Christmas - if I get time to come over - I have a lot of people to see spread all over and a car is the only way to do it in the time.

Charles

To add to Penny's comparison about gas to other liquids. Be glad you don't fill up on printer ink (the new black gold). US$8,000 a gallon!

http://www.ebusinessforum.com/index.asp?doc_id=7159&layout=rich_story

Looks like 87 octane has dropped to about $2.50/gal US but Diesel (like I use) is on the way up. I was happy to get $3.29, but have seen it at $3.65 locally. I guess Diesel is made in the same refineries as home heating oil. Every year about this time there's a "fake shortage" as the plants are relying on the (presumably massive) stockpiles of Diesel while they make heating oil. If it wasn't for the 50mpg from this car I'd be walking...

Update from here using current conversion of $1US = $1.32Aus Petrol Unleaded normal grade is $3.97US a US Gallon or $1.0425 a Litre, you all work it out. LPG is $0.44925US a Litre or $1.70US a Gallon which really doesn't reflect the true per gallon price here as our Gallon is different than your being higher.

High Octane ULP is $.36US a Gallon.

Diesel is $4.10 a Gallon.

Even thought the world price of Oil is near $60US a Barrel, it hasn't dropped here in several weeks.

Seems someone is profitering here and around other parts of the world too.

Home heating oil is diesel, I believe, or very close to it.

With the continued rising cost of Diesel fuel, I wonder how long it will be before people start clamoring for biodiesel, an organic based fuel that runs in diesel engines.

Home heating oil is diesel, I believe, or very close to it. With the continued rising cost of Diesel fuel, I wonder how long it will be before people start clamoring for biodiesel, an organic based fuel that runs in diesel engines.
I think it's at least made in the same refineries, so it's pretty similar. I'm not gonna chance it with my car though... BioDiesel can be a good alternative, but not in the cold. Also, my car has a Bosch injector pump, and they warn against the use of BioD even in small percentages when mixed with petroleum based Diesel fuel. I don't want to chance ruining the injector pump because it's a very expensive repair - it would take millions of miles of driving to pay that bill!

LPG = Liquid Propane Gas
if that's not a contradiction :)

I think LPG as far as I knew is Liquid Petroleum Gas.

They are approving the use blending of fuels here in Australia not diesal fuel, just normal ULP with Ethonol 5-10% here in Australia, has already started and I think it might have been being used unknowingly here for years.

Ethonol has dramatic effects on cars running and ommissions (at least that is the story they are giving), but also has drastic effects on car parts maily rubber seals etc.

The bad thing to this is, the Government has not made it compulsory to advertise that the petrol actually is blended fuel, so the poor average driver won't know until something goes wrong with the car.

I have Dual Fuel system in my Tarago (Toyota People Mover), with ULP/LPG and also have a small addative that is used when on LPG which mists to help coat the valves in the head like Petrol does to ensure they don't burn out due to lack of the necessary addative.

This is a very Hot subject down here, but unfortunately for us, the Opposition lost control of the Senate and now the Government is pushing everything it wants through Parliament without proper discussion or debate. Currently Industrial Reforms have been tabled and they look likely to pass through to be enacted as Law within weeks, sad days for employees. They also introduced new Counter Terrorists laws as well, which they have given 24 hrs to read and debate then it will pass into Law by Xmas here. Another hot issue as well.

I don't think Australia is ever going to be the same with these new laws passed as the whole structure of Industrial Revolution that we know and have worked under for the past 100 years is going out the door, and with it I think will be all the checks and balances that the Trade Union Movement have been able to enforce.

It would appear from the retorheic that we are heading down the paths of the USA, where people will have to go on to enforceable contracts that take away their rights and privlages without recourse.

A very very sad time in the History of Australia.

Pleasant surprise on the news tonight.... one gas station not far from me has dropped it's price to $1.97!!!!!! Well under anyone else around and under the national average of $2.45. In the past two weeks gas has dropped from $2.85 to $2.33 around here, then suddenly this one station drops below $2 WOW! :)

JS

They are approving the use blending of fuels here in Australia not.


http://www.matr.net/article-13313.html
I don't know anything about this exept that the fact that Willie Nelsons buss is powered by alternative fuel was in the paper sometime this past summer.
I hope the link is pertinant to this post.
Mark.

Here in Indiana they recently (August or September) announced the countries first "Bio Town" where they are building a biofuel plant and all diesel fuel will be biofuel made from soybeans and pig waist. They are hoping that this will do two things, one get rid of the pig waste that is polluting rivers and streams throughout the state and give farmers a new market for their soybeans.
In addition Indiana is opening new gas stations using the new alternative fuel E85, 85% ethanol, 15% gas. At present many stations are carrying E15 now which is 15% ethanol and 85% gas.

Next year, the IRL (Indy Racing League) has plans to run all races on E85 ethanol, including the Indy 500.

They already run a car sponsored by the Ethanol industry which could be booming here before too long. Attached is a shot of the Ethanol car from this past years Indy 500 practice.

JS

Bio Fuels are fine if the engine is built to specs of it's use, but where engines are say like my wife's car a Dawoo which is 8 years old and mine which is 12 years old now and petrol/lpg dual fuel. I have to be concerned that the seals etc will deteriorate with the use of Ethanol in the Fuel. Checking the Dawoo and Toyota sites both recommend NOT TO USE "Ethonal Blended Fuel" in them. But if the oil companies don't have to declare that the fuels are blended then how does the honest consumer even know, until the damage is done, which can be very expensive.

I did a head gasket in my Tarago, it cost $2,500 to repair (high yes I know but if you know Tarago's, the engine is under the floor of the driver and passenger seat). Having Dual Fuel probably made it even a bit hard to work on with the extra conversion parts that were add to the car.

Also finding Honest Mechanics is very very hard as well, not like it was 20 years ago when you knew you could trust the dealers to do the work and local mechanics as well. These days it is pretty pot luck to find one. I'm still looking.

Peter,

The 15% ethanol shouldn't hurt any engine, it won't run it hotter at that amount, 20% maybe. The manufacturers like Chrusler have been making alternative fuel vehicles here since the late 90's...try to buy one used though!
As for the biofuel deisel fuel, that they do not need to do much if anything to run it.

JS

You mean 4 star petrol is 95 pence/litre in the UK? Oh dear.

At least it's pretty stable.

Stay away from motorway services if you can.
Major supermarkets like Tesco, Morrison and Sainsbury's have petrol stations.
They are cheaper than motorway services where you're held captive and have no alternative.
I know Tesco at least have maps in their filling station kiosks showing there their stores are which have filing stations.
You can probably find it on the WorldWideWait as well.

We came back from Germany after the latest hurricane hit the USA and prices soared to 106p per litre at Dover port, just on the exit. But since our petrol gauge had read "0" since we turned off the A16 for Calais we decided ot just pay it :(

Now it's back down to 96p at our local Tesco - and that's for the super 99 ocatane not the usual 95 unleaded, that's below 90p.



You've made me think, this is about the 3rd year we haven't been to Paris.
Were going to the German Christmas markets instead (again).

Just got gas today and it was $2.13 gallon at a place that is normally higher than most places. So hopefully it's lower elsewhere :)

JS

Oil Prices today on the world market are $59.40 a barrel for oil, so would think this will start to have an effect on petrol prices soon. It is now down by over $10 on what it peaked at what 2 months ago.

Petrol is still relatively high here at $1.269Aus ($0.93 US) a Litre but independants have been selling for as low as $1.149Aus ($0.845US).

LPG is still high as well at $0.599Aus ($0.44) Litre

Diesel is $1.399Aus ($0.984US) a Litre

This is troubled by the tumbling Aussie $ as well which has droped about 2 1/2% in a week as well, becuase of US forces in play that have strengthed the US $ and other job and interest pressures there as well.

Basically it means that for every $1US oil falls the price of petrol goes down 1 cent, but for every 1 cent the assie $ falls, the petrol price goes up 1 cent, so there is negative forces in play here as well, unfortunately for us.

LPG = Liquid Propane Gas
if that's not a contradiction :)
Over here it's usually just called LP, but the only things I know that run off of it are industrial equipment like fork lifts.

JS, good to hear about plans for making BioD. Use something that's toxic to dispose of for something useful - that's something that especially us Americans need to think more about.

I hear E85 (ethanol) is much less efficient in MPG than regular petroleum based gasoline. I guess the guideline is that E85 needs to be more than 30% less expensive than gas to make financial sense. It's getting close, but the benefits are more than just in the numbers. More useage of E85 will mean more plants, stations that sell it, then (hopefully) eventually a lower cost.

Yes Anotherview and that is exactly what we thought about LPG over here, used to be 18 cents a litre now, slowly creeping up and up and up, it is $0.590 a litre, as our government decided to link the costs to what Oil Prices are. Anthing to keep the money rolling in.

Thought you guys might find this discussion interesting. David Friedman, research director for the Clean Vehicles Program of the Union of Concerned Scientists from AAA World magazine here in the US:

"After a 63-percent overall increase in the ten-year period after the CAFE regulations were passed in 1975, the average fuel mileage of current cars and truck models has actually been going down for the past two decades.

"In fact, automakers have spent the better part of the last 30 years openly fighting all efforts to require improvement in fuel economy directly or through their lobbyists and trade associations. They've predicted dire consequences, from massive job cuts to scores of drivers dying in car crashes, if government-mandated CAFE standards are raised, but the success of the gasoline-electric hybrid models introduced in recent yeras proves that it's not that automakers can't design and market safe, practical, fuel-efficient cars, but that they won't.

"The question is whether consumers are fed up enough with the high cost of filling up to tell their elected officials they want them to stop the auto companies' stalling tactics and do whatever it takes to deliver more fuel-efficient vehicles."

The Union of Concerned Scientists is at www.ucsusa.org

Rick

And they all said they'd go out of business (well, maybe not literally) when they had to start putting seat belts in, too. And there was the big fiasco 20 years ago about having to put center mounted brake lights on cars (here in the US). They're all still here, far as I can tell they're all here other than DeLorean and Yugo, other than no US presence from Peugeot and Renault.

Two things I don't get - I bought my Jetta Diesel not quite three years ago, trading out of a Ford Explorer (and haven't looked back!). First off, the EPA gave the Explorer the highest marks in terms of being environmentally friendly. Then they gave my Jetta a "not recommended" or something like that. My mileage goes up from 15 to 50, I'm putting tires on in 50k+ mile intervals instead of 30k (tire disposal is a problem here) and have 10k oil change intervals instead of 3k (and use less oil). Diesel emmisions have less CO2 in them too but yes, more soot particulate. Something doesn't add up... Second, most of the US branded (not necessarily made, but another OT thread) cars had roughly the same mileage. I could buy something Jetta-sized or something big, and there wasn't much of a mileage difference. I don't get that either.

OK - end rant. If you're still awake, thank you. Rick started it. :)

THey just announced the other day that two large oil companies (forget which) are putting E85 tanks into all new stations and will be adding tanks to all present stations in Indiana over the next few years.

What worries me is allowing "big oil" to be in on this, it will defeat the purpose by keeping prices high, instead of lowering them, and it will keep the little guys out of the picture.

Apparently Ford is finally jumping onboard as well and they will start producing all models with alternative fuels versions and make those available here in Indiana.

The pig farmers are all smiles over the new Biofuel program too. Especially one near me who is about to be cited by the state for dumping or having runoff waste into a local river polluting it and killing fish and so on.

One side affect of this though..... how you like to have a wreck and have 9,000 gallns of pig waste dumped on your road or worse, you trapped in your car and that crap dumping on you! :eek: It will happen, just a question of when and how will they deal with it? We have two or three semi truck crashes a day here around the "Circle City" and various highways in and around Indy, now add even more big trucks hauling animal waste.

Funniest wreck I ever saw here: two semi trucks 65 South at Kessler Blvd. a White Castle truck and a Wendys truck....there were hamburger patties everywhere!!! Both trucks dumped their entire loads all over I 65 :rolleyes: I just laughed because it happened between what I consider the two worst hamburger joints in the country.... just wonder what they did with all those burgers? Wouldn't surprise me if White Castle picked them up and sold em anyway.... they always reminded me of roadkill :confused: (what is it really in White Castles hamburgers?)

JS

One side affect of this though..... how you like to have a wreck and have 9,000 gallns of pig waste dumped on your road or worse, you trapped in your car and that crap dumping on you! :eek:

JS


I'd much prefer 9,000 gal of burning diesel fuel :D
I think that with ethanol or other products we have the ability to eliminate our dependance on forign oil. Too bad that wer'e all too busy microwaving our dinner to make a real stand against big business. Seems like there is just barely enough time in a day to make a living, and no time to fight the good fight.
We'll keep eating what we're spoon fed because it's convienient, untill we're fed up!
I hope we're almost fed up!
Mark.

Ford and Lexus now have hybrid SUV's out. It is the way of the future, it is inevitable. Like has been said before, it's not a matter of CAN we get off oil, it's a matter of WHEN WILL WE?

Where there's a will, there's way, I always say.

Of course, things might go faster when there's not an oil tycoon running the government?

BTW, you guys know not to microwave food covered in plastic wrap, right? Drips toxins into the food. I just learned that the other day, and by doing stock research nonetheless :mad:

Rick